In this episode of Manufacturing Matters, Flex-Line Automation President Cathy Rinne and Sales and Marketing Manager Lauren Van De Mark join TECH B2B Marketing’s Jimmy Carroll and Amanda Del Buono for a discussion from A3’s 2024 Business Forum. Cathy and Lauren share the conveyor system integrator’s 40-year history and how it has adapted to keep up with evolving customer demands, including conveyor integration with robotics and other equipment like palletizers. The discussion also touches on the growing role of women in industry, with Cathy sharing some of her real-life experiences as an industry executive over the past 40 years and how these compare with her daughter Lauren’s experiences.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:00:07] Hi, everybody. My name is Jimmy Carroll. I’m the vice president of operations at Tech B2B Marketing. We’re here on the Manufacturing Matters podcast. I have the pleasure of being joined by Cathy Rinee and Lauren Van De Mark of Flex-Line Automation, along with my colleague Amanda. Cathy and Lauren, thank you so much for taking the time today. It’s really nice to meet you and have you on.

Cathy Rinee: [00:00:24] Great to meet you.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:00:26] So Flex-Line Automation, could you tell us a little bit about, first of all, tell us about your company and what both do there.

Cathy Rinee: [00:00:34] So Flex-Line Automation, this will be our 40th year. We started out mainly in conveyors, and we have been conveyor system integrators for about 30 years. And then about 10 years out from that, we realized that the market was changing and that we were going to have to change with it or we were going to go by way of the dinosaur. So we started to integrate more robotics and other types of ancillary equipment into our offerings. And Lauren actually has been with the company her entire life.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:01:11] I’ve been answering phones since I could toddle.

Cathy Rinee: [00:01:13] Her dad and I founded Flex-Line with his parents. We started it in our farm shop, literally in the bay in our machine shed right next to the combine. So we have very humble beginnings, and we’re really rooted in those kind of solid midwestern farm values. And so Lauren has literally grown up in the company.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:01:35] It’s true. I always thought that babies would be delivered via UPS.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:01:41] So thank you for that. I do want to ask about robotics, obviously, but one thing I wanted to ask about is conveyor systems. Automation systems today continue to evolve and expand as customer needs grow. And things like the labor shortage kind of speed up the need for automation for some companies or the need to adopt further automation. So how has conveyor technology needed to expand or evolve with these automation systems over time?

Cathy Rinee: [00:02:08] Well, we actually have had a very innovative product line from day one, because our main conveyor product line was a flexible tabletop conveyor system, and this allowed us to be able to do a lot of overhead . . .

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:02:23] Buffer systems

Cathy Rinee: [00:02:24] Buffer systems, vertical, tight horizontal bins, things that would make the best use of manufacturing space. Because what manufacturers really have a problem with is they need to get more machines in to have more productivity. So if you can get parts to those machines or away from those machines and utilize space overhead, that was very innovative in its time. Today we’re seeing AI incorporated into conveyor systems. We’re seeing still a lot of new product development as far as escapements and all of the ancillary kind of automation things. You have anything that you can throw into that?

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:03:04] Yeah, a lot of people seem to believe that conveyors just aren’t cool anymore. Fifteen years ago, conveyors were looked at as more than just something that you get on Grainger and order like a 10-foot straight conveyor. But really, conveyors still have a very important place in material handling. I mean, yes, robots are really sexy. Everybody wants an AMR or an AGV it seems like. But sometimes simple is best, and a simple solution can be a much more robust solution and can really still have a very important place in material handling.

Cathy Rinee: [00:03:41] You can’t beat a hard knock in conveyor. I mean, they’re hard to to have issues with. Robots you have sometimes some issues with programming, things like that. You put a conveyor in and it’s pretty much set it and forget it. And it just does what it needs to do for as long as it needs to do it.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:04:00] Yeah. I mean, it’s a critical part of so many systems, right?

Cathy Rinee: [00:04:02] It absolutely is. And we have some really great space-saving compact spirals so we can actually elevate product in a very, very tight footprint, which is really beneficial. Again, space saving and the ability for a conveyor to work with a robot is really important because a lot of people think you have one or the other, and they actually work together. I mean, all automation equipment is designed to work together.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:04:32] And I think that’s one of the benefits of working with an integrator like us is we really understand how to make all of those different parts communicate and work together to the best overall efficiency of the system. You can go in and you can buy this from over here and this from over here, and you can take all of those pieces and integrate them in yourself. But a lot of times there’s some efficiency that we bring to that process that I think a lot of manufacturers can benefit from.

Cathy Rinee: [00:05:03] For 40 years, we kind of learned some tricks. You know, after 40 years, we know a thing or two because we’ve seen a thing or two, I guess, that those insurance guys say that. But I mean, we can probably say that too. So what we bring to the table is a more tailored kind of approach, and we use that 40 years of experience in knowing what products would be best fitted. I mean, you can’t go on to Grainger or McMaster-Carr — you can buy stuff, but how do you know where to start and what to buy? And the beautiful thing about working with an integrator like our company is we can take this project from start to finish, we can incorporate vision systems, we can incorporate carton erectors, palletizers, labelers, whatever you need, check weighers, the whole thing. So we make that easy. We make it easy to automate.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:05:58] Yeah. It’s like a one-stop shop.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:06:01] I kind of want to take a step backwards in the conversation a little bit because you had mentioned starting the business with your husband in your barn, and I was kind of curious about that. I was wondering if you could kind of expand. Was this kind of a venture that you wanted to go into? What brought you as a woman business owner . . .

Cathy Rinee: [00:06:19] It was absolutely not at all what I wanted to go into.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:06:23] Was this your husband’s idea and what was the evolution that took you to be the president of this company?

Cathy Rinee: [00:06:29] You know, I grew up on a farm. And I have one sister. My dad had two daughters after my sister. When I came along, he kind of realized, well, this is it. This is as good as I’m going to get. So he took me and kind of tried to guide me. I mean, I took tractors apart and rebuilt equipment and farmed and hunted and fished and did all of the things that a son would do. And so he prepared me for having the ingenuity, having just the stick-to-itiveness, the ability to just tackle these projects and get them done. Because that’s how you handle things on a farm. So fast forward, I meet my husband and I’m going to school. He was still going to school at that time, and his dad was in industrial filtration, and we were kind of at a point — I was working for the Department of Commerce, and I was kind of liking my government job. And so we had this opportunity to get involved with the conveyors, and he wanted to do it, and I totally didn’t. And so we did it, and I got involved and basically I was the gofer. I was the one that set up the inventory. I was the one that . . .

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:07:51] Had the jobs that they didn’t want to have?

Cathy Rinee: [00:07:53] Yeah. Because, you know, but I did a lot of turning of the wrenches. And looking back, I’m really happy to have had that kind of immersion into this industry because I didn’t have any formal training in automation. You know, I’m bringing that farm ingenuity. I’m bringing 40 years of experience. You know, that’s what I bring to the table. And so I really fell into it. I wasn’t the most willing, but I did it. I ended up being the president because I’m naturally bossy, right? And in the early years of our business, it was really hard because we would fight over decisions and things like that, because it’s really tough when you work with your spouse, and then throw your in-laws in there and it’s really tough. So we drew these circles and it was pretty much a Venn diagram. And we had just this small sliver where we would interchange.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:08:53] And that’s where I wound up having to work.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:08:57] Make sure I brought you in here.

Cathy Rinee: [00:08:59] So it just naturally evolved that I was the one that was making a lot of the management decisions because my husband was very much the technical, the engineer. And while I was still doing that and traveling and on-site and doing that kind of thing too, it was just kind of we migrated into our areas of expertise and we finally, after 40 years, don’t fight about whose decisions are what anymore. And Lauren, you know, has been in the business. She left the business for a short time.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:09:31] Yeah. I went and I got my master’s in marketing at Mississippi State. So I worked at Flex-Line, took about a two-year hiatus, and then I’ve been back ever since.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:09:43] And what has it been like for you? I’m curious on both standpoints because you’ve been in the industry for 40 years, you’ve seen women’s place in this space evolve, and you’ve come in as a young, a millennial, kind of with a different viewpoint, where women were encouraged to enter all these different industries or do whatever they wanted to do, do STEM jobs. So what has it been like for you to come into this and see it?

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:10:09] And it’s been really, really nice. I mean, I was really, really lucky growing up with, obviously my mom is a strong female role model in this industry. And so in FlexLink, which is the tabletop conveyor system that we started with and that we still work with most frequently, there were two other female presidents of conveyor companies, and so I got to be exposed to them as well. So I really didn’t have any concept that women couldn’t be presidents of automation companies or anything like that. So whenever I went to my first Pack Expo, in 2006, not seeing women all over the place was actually kind of interesting because I was like, wait a minute, I know Joan and I know Dana, and I know my mom. Where are all of these other women? And so it’s been really interesting, especially over the last 10 years, to see more and more women getting into the industry, because there’s no reason that we shouldn’t have been here this entire time.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:11:18] Absolutely.

Cathy Rinee: [00:11:19] Well, yeah. I mean, when I was a kid, basically my guidance counselors, the pathway was, you want to be a nurse, you want to be a homemaker. Do you want to be a teacher? You know, we were very limited. Fortunately, my dad kind of blew that whole stereotype out of the water because he’s like, You want to be a mechanic, you can be a mechanic. You know, you want to work construction. And I did build houses for a short amount of time before. So, you know, I explored a lot of different things. I had a lot of opportunity that I just took. I think generations today have that opportunity, and it’s more of a given. I mean, I invaded that space and I did it and I had a lot of fun with it. And I have to say that being a woman in this industry is amazing, because I can have a level of vulnerability and honesty that I don’t think my men counterparts can have, and that’s really unfortunate. I can go into a meeting and be like, “Oh geez, I don’t know, I screwed this up” or “I don’t know, let me find out.” And that’s okay. And everybody’s okay with me saying that.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:12:33] You can also throw things out like, “Have you considered this?” And it’s not an attack to ask a male engineer as a woman like, “Hey, have you thought of everything?” Whereas a lot of times I find if my male counterparts ask those questions, there’s some defensiveness that innately comes up. So it’s really, really nice to be a part of those conversations.

Cathy Rinee: [00:12:56] Yeah over the years, I mean, I related the story about how I walked into the conference room and was asked to make coffee one day, and I made the cup of coffee and I handed it to the gentleman, and I left the conference room, and then I was brought back into the conference room as the president of the company. So, you know, I mean, but I did not take that personally, you know, and I make a pretty decent cup of coffee, and I’m not going to lie. So I just have never taken any of it personally. I have worked side by side with a lot of gentlemen that I’ve learned so much from. And I think as women in this industry, it is very important for us to value not only the feminine qualities that we’re bringing to the table but also to appreciate the men that we work alongside of, because I think together that partnership really strengthens what we can offer to customers. And it’s really important. I mean, women, we have the soft skills, and I mean we have the other skills as well. But you know, we are the doers. I think it’s been easier for me to be in this business as a woman than it would have ever been for me to be a man.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:14:13] Interesting. It’s nice from a male perspective, I think it’s kind of a generational thing. For me, some of the best bosses I’ve ever had are female. And, you know, in the past, like in publishing and marketing, there’s plenty of females there. And that’s fine. But in general automation or manufacturing, maybe there’s less females, in the past anyway. So now it’s nice to start seeing and meeting and talking to people like you. To show people out there like girls or women that are in high school or in college to say, well, I can go do that if I want to. I don’t have to go to a traditional career path.

Cathy Rinee: [00:14:50] Absolutely.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:14:52] I think part of that too is people are getting exposed more and more through podcasts like this one and through a variety of social media to what manufacturing really is, because as an industry, we really need to be better about selling ourselves to those students and educating them that the jobs in manufacturing are not nearly as sucky as what one thinks that they are. Right? Like it’s not “I Love Lucy” on the chocolate line manufacturing anymore.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:15:18] Yeah, totally. It’s not just flipping things over or making sure the box — it’s any range of jobs, it could be marketing, it could be an executive-level job.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:15:26] Even if you’re on the factory floor, it could be running . . .

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:15:31] Watching a robot flip those boxes around.

Cathy Rinee: [00:15:33] You know, the greatest thing about my job is problem solving. And it’s not only executive-level problem solving or HR or marketing. I mean, you’ll find me out run an air line sometimes if the guys are busy and I’ve got a minute and they need a hand, hey, I’m happy to throw in. And you know, I like to stay out on the floor and in touch with what’s going on and learn what’s going on. And, you know, Miss Marketing over here. We were at Pack Ex and the robot had a little glitch and I was programming the robot and she’s throwing out Snapchats: “Look, it’s so easy, even the company president can do it.”

Amanda Del Buono: [00:16:15] I guess that’s what happens when it’s your mom.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:16:17] Sometimes I say things without thinking, which gets me in trouble a lot more.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:16:23] But I’m sure that was a really well-followed post or well engaged with.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:16:29] Absolutely. It’s approachable, it’s funny, you know, from a marketing perspective it’s great.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:16:33] There’s a lot of operations though, like being completely honest, right, that don’t have the people that are trained, you know, they need to see that robots are easy to operate. So as it is a joke, not everybody is paying for the highest level engineer. So if you can show them that they can up-skill their current worker and just teach them how to use it, I think that’s . . .

Cathy Rinee: [00:16:54] I’m a good example of that, I guess.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:16:59] I think that’s really interesting.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:17:04] I did want to ask a couple of robot-related questions I guess you could say. UR+ is this ecosystem of Universal Robots. Everyone knows Universal Robots, collaborative robots, or cobots, as everyone calls them. You’ve got a new product that is UR+ certified. Is that right?

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:17:23] Yeah. So our boxEZ, which is a collaborative robot box erector, just recently became a UR+ solution. And using that, we can erect multiple sizes of cartons without having to have the changeover that you would have with a traditional carton erector.

Cathy Rinee: [00:17:38] From a single pick point.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:17:40] In a really, really small footprint. You know, earlier Mom was talking about how space in a manufacturing facility is at a premium. And this is really a case in point of that. Since we are handling the container still with the gripper and the end-of-arm tooling on the robot, then we can maintain that box through the picking, erection, and placing process so we can discharge pretty much anywhere that you would want it to be, whether that’s in a gravity queue with a lane designated for each box size or onto a conveyor into a cart. We can even palletize that same box without ever changing over our end-of-arm tooling, and we can design that end-of-arm tooling to even be able to be used to case pack if the rate allows. So it’s a pretty flexible solution.

Cathy Rinee: [00:18:31] A traditional case erector takes up a huge chunk of real estate. And usually, you get maybe one or two package sizes, with a lot of changeover. And so the fact that we can have either horizontal or vertical magazines, we can have a multitude of box sizes based on the robot reach, based on the size of the box, that kind of thing. I mean, we just really bring flexibility to that task that hasn’t been there before.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:19:00] Yeah. And that kind of ties into something I wanted to ask about, like warehouse automation in general. So market intelligence company Interact Analysis predicts modest growth for warehouse automation in 2024 but double-digit growth in the years to follow. Right. I want to ask you what you think the growth drivers are behind that. But you kind of talked about one thing that I think is maybe a main growth driver there, and that’s ease of use. So like UR+ in general, it’s one of the things that makes them so popular, I think, is that it’s relatively easy to use. But from your perspective, what else do you think are some of the growth drivers behind the increase in warehouse automation?

Cathy Rinee: [00:19:36] Well, I mean, everybody is short staffed. And safety. You know, back in my day, safety was a luxury. You know, it wasn’t something that people spent money on because that wasn’t what you did. You know, workers came, workers went, and that’s not the case anymore. So safety is really important. And I think automation provides a very safe workplace.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:20:04] And it’s not just safety. It’s also the employees that places are able to get now. They want a more rewarding job, right. They don’t want to stand there and erect cardboard boxes all day because it’s boring. And you get cardboard cuts.

Cathy Rinee: [00:20:18] And I tell you from under-erecting boxes at trade shows all day, you do not want that job.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:20:23] Absolutely.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:20:24] So it’s a solution like ours, it’s providing the employees a job that’s more fulfilling because they’re able to watch the robots work to make sure that they’re working properly. The same employee can look over several workstations. They’re not hurting their shoulder because they’re having to palletize heavy boxes. The robot can do that for them. They’re not throwing out their back trying to lift pallets over their head because they’ve integrated like a PALOMAT Inline pallet magazine. I mean, there are all of these wonderful automation solutions that really improve safety and fulfillment in the warehouse.

Cathy Rinee: [00:21:03] And the AGVs and AMRs as well. She mentioned the pallet dispensers. You know, we’re doing a lot more work in the warehouse space. And that is exactly ease of use and just employee satisfaction, morale, and safety. I mean, people need to want to go to work.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:21:23] I think it ties back into that conversation you were having earlier about making this manufacturing industry more appealing to people by making it safer, making people want to go to work, and making it, “I get to go to work and wear those cool exoskeletons. I get to go to work and use that cool thing.” We all like cool technology. Who doesn’t want to use a new camera.

Cathy Rinee: [00:21:45] We installed some mobile industrial robots in a plant, and people were taking selfies with them, you know, and they thought it was really cool that they had that — once they got past the “robot’s going to steal my job” phase. That’s the first thing that you encounter when you deploy any type of system.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:22:06] How do you address that conversation?

Cathy Rinee: [00:22:08] Well, frankly.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:22:11] I feel like so much of what I do whenever I’m doing sales is not necessarily even selling the product. It’s “No, no, it’s okay. You can look at automation. It’s fine. You’re not betraying someone by wanting to make your employees lives better,” and really reframing that and not just eliminating the dull, dirty, and dangerous jobs. We’re eliminating the depressing jobs, like some you don’t want to do.

Cathy Rinee: [00:22:36] But we faced this with the taxi driver last night. We get in the taxi, he’s like, “Where are you going?” “Oh, the A3 conference.” “What do you do?” “Robotics.” “Oh, you’re taking everybody’s jobs.” I’m like, “No, we’re not.”

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:22:48] That’s your first takeaway.

Cathy Rinee: [00:22:50] That was the first thing. But you know what? By the time we got out, he was like, “Hey, you know, I never thought of it that way before.” So I think just having conversations and telling people frankly and straight up, and let’s not beat around the bush. It’s like, you know, I’m not here for your job.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:23:06] I’m here for the job you didn’t want to do.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:23:08] You know, it’s interesting. I have heard some stories of that, where people have gone to automation because they had a job listing up for so long and no one took it. Nobody wanted that job. It’s not that we’re taking it from somebody. It’s that we need something or someone to do this.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:23:24] As companies automate, that allows them to then expand and add more of the jobs that people are interested in pursuing. You get better jobs because you get the technician jobs. You get the ones that are fulfilling for a human to do.

Cathy Rinee: [00:23:39] One of our local private label food manufacturers, they’re down 1,500 employees over three plants. That’s a lot. And so they are really looking at automation to fill that void. And it not only fills the void, but it improves the life of the people that are working there. You know their jobs do get easier, and they do get better. And so we just have to have those open conversations. But you have to call it out. You know, you can’t walk in the plant and not talk about the elephant in the room, right? You might as well just walk over to that group of employees and just throw it down. Yeah, I know you guys are not happy to see us, but here’s why you should be. And just have those conversations, and I think just the honest ability to talk about it really.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:24:35] It’s disarming. It’s alleviating that, because a lot of times in this industry, you’re not talking to the people on the line, who are the ones that are really impacted by introducing automation.

Cathy Rinee: [00:24:45] And they’re the ones that can make or break a project. If you don’t sell the guys at the very end of the line, it doesn’t matter how many people in the upper management are pro your project. Your project is going to tank. You know, you’ve got to go out on the line and you’ve got to make friends with those people, and you have to really show them that improvement if you want their buy-in. And at the end of the day, if you don’t have their buy-in . . .

Amanda Del Buono: [00:25:09] No one’s going to use it, right?

Cathy Rinee: [00:25:11] They’re going to sabotage it. I mean, that’s what people do. They’re like, “Oh, well this robot. He’s not working!”

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:25:19] “It just protective stops for no reason whatsoever.”

Amanda Del Buono: [00:25:22] Have you guys actually seen that?

Cathy Rinee: [00:25:23] Oh, absolutely.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:25:24] Oh, wow.

Cathy Rinee: [00:25:26] So I think it’s really important that you have those honest conversations and not just with upper management, but you talk to the people that are using the technology and are going to be most impacted by the technology, openly. And you just have to be honest.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:25:43] Interesting. I don’t have much else. We’ve covered a lot.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:25:47] I was honing in on you. Is there anything else we should talk about?

Cathy Rinee: [00:25:55] Well, I don’t know. We could talk all day because that’s how we are.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:25:59] I agree. Verbose, I think is the word.

Cathy Rinee: [00:26:02] That’s a kind way to put it.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:26:03] Well, yeah. Fair enough. If anybody wants to learn more about your company, what’s the website?

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:26:10] We are at flex-lineautomation.com.

Cathy Rinee: [00:26:14] It’s interesting though. I am the Conveyor Cougar, and I’m going to give myself a plug. That is my LinkedIn. It’s the Conveyor Cougar, and smarty pants over here is another one that I can tell you. We left a meeting one day, a sales meeting with these young engineers, and I walked out and I’m like, When did I become the old lady in the room? You know, when did this happen? I just feel like, God, I feel like such a cougar. And she’s like, yeah, Mom, you’re the Conveyor Cougar. And I’m like, wait a minute, I am the Conveyor Cougar.

Lauren Van De Mark: [00:26:44] So whenever I was in high school, we would go to the mall, which is a very dated thing now. So we’d go into, like, Spencer’s Gifts. And I remember the guy at Spencer’s Gifts once was like, “Oh, my God, you’re so lucky. Your mom is so cool.” And I just at like 13 wanted to melt into the floor. And now I get to live that every day of my professional life. My mom is so so cool.

Cathy Rinee: [00:27:06] Every day I make it my goal to try to give her something cringeworthy.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:27:18] That’s what moms do.

Cathy Rinee: [00:27:22] That’s what I aspire towards.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:27:24] And one day it’ll be you.

Cathy Rinee: [00:27:25] It is. She’s right now the Conveyor Kitten.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:27:29] Oh my gosh, I love that.

Cathy Rinee: [00:27:31] She hates it, which makes me love it more. Not gonna lie.

Amanda Del Buono: [00:27:36] Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it. It was a pleasure to have you on.

Cathy Rinee: [00:27:40] Thanks for having us guys.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:27:42] Yeah, absolutely. Thanks very much. If anyone has any questions, comments, or wants to reach out: manufacturing-matters.com. Cathy. Lauren, thank you so much.