Winn Hardin: [00:00:06] Hey, everybody, and welcome to Manufacturing Matters, where we talk about the technologies and trends that are reshaping the global manufacturing industry. Today I’m lucky enough to be here with Mike Zampano and with Scott Blais from MK North America. Thanks for taking time out today, guys.

Scott Blais: [00:00:19] Yeah, thanks for having us. Really a pleasure.

Winn Hardin: [00:00:22] Why don’t you start us off? Tell us a little bit about MK. I know you’re conveyance material handling experts here in North America. And then what you both do.

Scott Blais: [00:00:29] Yeah. So MK North America is a per-spec material handling solutions provider. That’s a lot of mumbo jumbo, right? We do real-world LEGOs. So we do a lot of conveying solutions. We have a large breadth of product. And the company started in the ’60s over in Troisdorf, Germany. We came to the North American market in 1988. So we’ve been here for a minute now, and we operate the entire North American market out of Bloomfield, Connecticut, which is pretty close to Hartford. So I’m our sales and business development manager. I actually turn 10 with MK this year. So it’s been a fast 10 years but a fun 10 years. Looking forward to the next 10. And I take a lot of pride in helping manage our sales, marketing, and customer service efforts. So MK has been a company that’s gone through quite a bit of growth over the last few years. It’s been very good to us, and we’re confident that that trend is going to continue.

Mike Zampano: [00:01:21] I’m on the engineering side. So I’m in charge of our VersaFlex product line, which is our flat top chain options. And I’ve not hit 10 years yet, but I’m inching towards it, and I got to see a wide range of different products and stuff like that with my growth in MK. So it’s been it’s been quite the ride.

Winn Hardin: [00:01:50] We talked about the Flex-Line first Mike that you’re on, I know you got VersaFlex, VersaMove, you’ve got some other options. What are the primary conveyance or power drive technologies that you guys are using?

Scott Blais: [00:02:02] Yeah that’s a great question. And before I even answer that, it’s never a dull day on the production floor. So week to week it can be wildly different, from major systems to sort of A to B conveyors. MK, like I mentioned, has a large breadth of products. So we span many market segmentations, many solution scopes. And it’s cool because we’re able to make an a la carte solution to solve very unique and challenging applications. Typically speaking, it’s a lot of palletized systems. So when we say palletized, we mean finished pallets, right? Whether that be a finished aluminum pallet like what you use on a VersaMove line or a flexible chain-style pallet, like on our VersaFlex line. That said, flat belting has always been a core part of our business. Timing belts, accumulating roller chain conveyors. We really do run the gamut, and we’re always tweaking our designs. I think if you are a company that is not trying to improve upon designs and you get complacent with your products, you’re really doing a disservice to your product offering, and the customer.

Winn Hardin: [00:03:08] If you’re not growing, you’re dying. Especially in this fast-moving technology world that we live in.

Scott Blais: [00:03:14] Absolutely.

Winn Hardin: [00:03:15] I didn’t see anything when I was up in your booth last time checking it out, but do you guys also do food grade?

Scott Blais: [00:03:21] We do. So we do have a stainless steel offering. We call it CleanMove. For us, it’s more into the low sanitation, lower pressurized wash systems. We do quite a bit of packaging on the stainless side or industrial stainless steel, so we do have that as a part of a complementary offering for us. But as you know, I’m sure, the stainless industry is very cutthroat, very niche. And you know, because of our aluminum-based product line, it’s a per-application basis.

Winn Hardin: [00:03:56] Gotcha. Yeah, absolutely a lot more expensive. But when you’re using it because you need clean-in-place, wash-down-in-place, there can absolutely be reasons to bring it in. Would you consider, and I’m curious about this because we know food automation, but it’s been a laggard for a long time. They weren’t using a lot of automation, more packaging, not so much of processing. Then the pandemic era came and kind of changed what they had, their approaches. Their labor shortages were exacerbated by a whole bunch. Can you tell us a little bit about — has food gone up and down? Everything is cyclical in life, but have you noticed just a general uptake or have you guys just been in that place for so long? Because you’re in the packaging. You’re in the processing. You’re a core element of all their operations.

Scott Blais: [00:04:43] So with COVID specifically, yeah, that’s a little bit easier I would say for us to speak to. COVID obviously was not a very good time for a lot of people. You know, if we’re going to be a half glass full podcast, I do think there was some positives that came out of COVID in terms of how business is conducted, sort of balancing how you conduct your business and becoming more efficient. Your use of teams. On the stainless side or the food side, we didn’t really experience based on the applications we approach any kind of lull or dramatic change. In terms of packaging solutions, a lot of the time we try to steer customers into the aluminum. You mentioned price point. So again, stainless is a little more per-application basis for us. What I will say is with regards to MK and specifically plastic module belting, flexible chain, and some of our other traditional means of conveying, a lot of it was COVID response. So we’re actually a big player in helping to speed up the process for manufacturing COVID kits on major lines, because there is obviously a demand and a high ramp-up to get these kits out and make them accessible for the general public. So in terms of how our business was affected, a lot of it shifted to very aggressive, short lead time, high throughput applications regarding the COVID testing packages. And then along with that our core segmentation has always kind of been automotive, whether that be subassembly or larger cell assemblies. So the automotive has boomed as well. And the emergence of the EV market segmentation over the last, we’ll call it five to seven years, has really given us a lot of unique perspective on the industry and a lot of opportunities and applications to push the envelope as to what we do as a company and really how we look at some of these applications holistically.

Winn Hardin: [00:06:37] So in reference to the automotive market, which has been such a key market driving industrial automation uptake, are we seeing more tier one and tier twos pay attention to automated conveyance material handling solutions or has that always been the case?

Scott Blais: [00:06:49] Yeah, I would say that’s always kind of been the case. What I would say with regards to the integration teams and whether it’s tier one or tier two, the technological advancements over the last, call it five years, really pushed the envelope I think on how integrators look at their projects. We actually range a whole bunch of different integrators and customers, so whether it’s tier one or tier two, to us we’re kind of playing the same game. It’s just done a little bit differently depending on who you’re working with.

Winn Hardin: [00:07:18] But more of size and scale.

Scott Blais: [00:07:19] The equipment around our material handling solutions has really pushed us to become better as a material handling solution provider. And Mike’s product line that we’re coming to market with, it’s our version of a flexible chain palletized system with an aluminum-plated pallet. So Mike’s gonna have a lot more opportunities to do subassembly now on his product line, and I’ll let you speak to that a little bit.

Mike Zampano: [00:07:43] Yeah so that’s where the customer drives the innovation. So we see an uptick in . . .

Winn Hardin: [00:07:49] This is VersaFlex we’re talking about?

Mike Zampano: [00:07:50] Yep, VersaFlex. So that’s our flexible chain conveyor system that we now included the AP10, which is our new palletizing system, kind of a medium duty, loads up to 60 pounds. Midrange loading. Yeah, the customer drives all the innovation just for the fact that if they need something to be done, we have to provide it. So that’s where the product development gets for sure pushed towards that.

Scott Blais: [00:08:18] And it’s always awesome for us internally to see a core-principle conveyor take the next step or a product line take the next step and make us a little bit more nimble or flexible. Pun intended. So we always had, when we started this product line, now what, five years ago already. We always had a pallet solution, right? That’s what we called our PO8 system. That’s a Delrin-based pallet. And all of these flexible chain solutions are predicated on high accumulation, whether it be a pallet or product. You know, vertical storage is another element we see quite a bit of. But the AP10 edition really gives us that in between of your robust pallet system, our VersaMove system, and the PO8, which is a little bit lighter duty, smaller scale. So we’re excited to bring this to the market. I think it’s going to open up a lot of capabilities for tier ones and tier twos, just to kind of tie that together. So we’re very excited and it’s already picking up a lot of traction.

Winn Hardin: [00:09:17] So when we talk about vertical storage: ASRS-type systems? Large rack and vertical warehouse type operations? Talk to me.

Mike Zampano: [00:09:25] We have what we call an alpine system conveyor. So what it is is, you have vertical storage in terms of bottling or stuff like that, where you can go up and come back down just to buy yourself time for buffering. We’ve seen that kind of uptick this year as well, just for the fact that you need to source in a production line and make sure that you have that throughput.

Winn Hardin: [00:09:47] Vertical space is one thing you’re pretty much going to have, so that makes a whole lot of sense. So we’ve mentioned technologies coming in. We mentioned specifically the flexible drive. I know robot integration is a key component, but what are the other technologies that are reshaping material management right now?

Scott Blais: [00:10:03] That’s a loaded question. It seems like, maybe not day to day because I don’t want to be that dramatic. But week to week, month to month, year to year for sure, there’s always a new wrinkle. And you’re always challenging yourself to stay current if not get ahead. It’s very hard to get ahead in this industry because there is so much technology. And it’s one of the things that coming to Automate is fantastic for, right? A3 does a fantastic job putting this on, and the other booths and solutions that you see literally blow your mind every year. That said, we’ve gotten a little bit more into AGV toppers. So a lot of companies, especially the higher-end companies with a little more dinero to spend, are leaning more towards automating the process of moving larger parts from one part of their facility to another. Rack storage or vertical storage is a whole loaded can of worms because for us that could be something like an alpine system, to Mike’s point. It could be a FIFO system, where you’re kind of taking, let’s say, a tray in, indexing it up, filling the capacity, and then moving it out. There’s so many examples of that.

Winn Hardin: [00:11:11] Something we’re seeing like in the EV battery demonstration a little bit.

Scott Blais: [00:11:15] For sure. But for sure AGVs, obviously robotics are there, some of the inventory management systems, which truly we don’t do a whole lot of, have really blown my mind to the point where you have real-time inventories fully automated, and then that interfaces in with your AGVs, your AMRs.

Winn Hardin: [00:11:35] How much do you guys have to be concerned with WMS or MES systems? At the enterprise level, manufacturing execution or warehouse management systems. I know that communication interfaces are critical for you guys, but is that something that integrator is usually handling and just using kind of standard I/O type connections or does that really come into play when you’re doing your designs?

Scott Blais: [00:11:56] Yeah, it’s a mixed bag depending on the project, but on the higher level, by nature of being in this industry as long as we have in the North American market, we have a lot of good relationships, strong relationships with high-end integrators, with a lot more capability in terms of the logic. Our niche and our specialization really is the material handling and figuring out how we can work with these integrators to give the end user the best ROI, which is always really important on a commercial high level. ROI, efficiency, and a solution that they feel confident about and we feel confident about. At the end of the day the most important thing is that it works reliably.

Winn Hardin: [00:12:34] After commissioning, it works so well that they stopped worrying about or even thinking about it. It’s just on. So where are we headed? I know we can’t look at a crystal ball and anticipate whether it’s going to be, for example, putting cobots on AMR systems. It seems like we’re finally starting to see arms on pedestals. Mobile systems. But what do you guys see when you look down the road?

Scott Blais: [00:12:59] I’ll let you answer first, Mike, and then I’ll chime in.

Mike Zampano: [00:13:02] I do think the palletizing systems are just growing. This year specifically it’s been booming. So these machine cells, these assembly operations that they’re trying to automate across the country, it definitely seems to be that’s the most uptick that we’ve seen.

Scott Blais: [00:13:20] The palletized systems, to Mike’s point, for us it’s a large point of emphasis moving forward, and we’re going to be hyper-focused and trying to become even better in that space and adding our own little wrinkles to it. I think the industry is evolving at a rapid pace now. I think the introduction of the early or first iterations of AI now coming in to even push the technological front further is going to be something we keep a close eye on as well, and I’m sure the tier ones have been keeping a close eye on it because how can that become a lever for them? How can it push the envelope on how we do things, how we look at things? Can we use AI as a means of changing the way we conventionally look at material handling and automation? I think that’s a huge part of it.

Winn Hardin: [00:14:07] Does that help us driving faster throughput in terms of using AI based on whatever object is on the conveyance mechanism?

Scott Blais: [00:14:13] I would say so, for sure.

Winn Hardin: [00:14:14] Manage the physics, basically push it right up to the limit before you need to worry about stuff flying off.

Scott Blais: [00:14:20] I think AI has the potential to completely change the entire industry from the sense of AI can give it an analytically driven vantage point on the mechanical, the procedural, and the integration level.

Winn Hardin: [00:14:36] And possibly the maintenance level.

Scott Blais: [00:14:36] For sure, the maintenance level. Technologically speaking, you have people who can diagnose machines without even being in the room anymore. I was in a booth last year, it was really impressive where you put the VR goggles on and you can see the machine and you can see the bottleneck on the line or the failure. So, again, we are probably headed that way regardless. But post-COVID, how can we be efficient without being together in person? I think we would have gotten there naturally, but I think that really accelerated the push to make everybody more autonomous without having to leave their facilities. You can’t replace this, right? So the technology is great. But I think the biggest thing as an industry that we need to be focused on is not using this, as the technology makes us more and more inclined to not do this. AI is going to be a big driver. Robotics has come such a long way, and it’s amazing. You have systems now that are not predicated on traditional electrical currency. You have magnetized systems that will fire a little puck a mile in a minute. And it blows my mind, the combination of all that and then the buzzword of industry 4.0. It’ll be really interesting to see how this evolves over the next handful of years.

Winn Hardin: [00:15:54] When we talk about operational control and visibility across large material handling systems, does simulation and visualization play a big part of that? And how does MK North America approach that?

Scott Blais: [00:16:05] It’s a great question. I think simulation software is a big part of it. It’s going to be more of a focal point moving forward, because everybody wants that peace of mind that the process flow is going to meet the demand. So it’s very easy for anybody involved in a project to go, okay, my piece of equipment is going to do its job. But at the end of the day, if you have a means of putting everything together to show exactly how it’s going to run, and it’s a great way that AI I think is going to continue to push that boundary as well. Then that’s an advantageous approach. I can tell you from the MK side of things, we’re very cognizant of that as well, and that goes for more than just the simulation software. We’re very aware that from a technological accessibility standpoint, we need to continue to push, as an industry but also as a company. Everybody needs to continue to give their customers the best value-add services and accessibility to the products. That’s the only way from our point of view that you’re going to continually give the customer the opportunity to have a positive response to your products short of physically shipping the unit. They need to understand what they’re looking at and digest it.

Winn Hardin: [00:17:12] And when we talk about simulation, are we just talking about during the design phase or also in the operational dashboard, visualizing operations phase from the centralized control room? Is that a big part of this? Do those go hand in hand?

Mike Zampano: [00:17:26] I think they do. We’ve seen an uptick as well in virtual reality, walking the line, and stuff like that where they can see, like Scott said, before it gets on their floor and built, they could actually see, okay, this is what it’s going to look like. Okay. I don’t like that. So let’s change that.

Winn Hardin: [00:17:43] So especially if you got a problematic motor or encoder or something else you’re going to visually identify that for an individual. You know, fix that.

Scott Blais: [00:17:52] And from the standpoint of MK North America, a lot of the times the conveyors are overlooked in line. In order to achieve what you need to achieve in terms of throughput and presenting to the higher-end equipment, I’ll say, you need a reliable means of material handling. That doesn’t change. For us, again, we have strong relationships with tier ones to the point where they’re taking our mechanical. They’re working with us on our expertise, which is the mechanical, the conveying side, and putting it into their simulation software is a complex and comprehensive package to the end user. So a lot of the times we work with the integrators on the means of configuration, because they need to add their bells and whistles to make this thing function correctly, to which we have no real say over. So it’s a lot more collaborative for us.

Winn Hardin: [00:18:38] One of my last questions. But how do robots impact your designs? You know, because that’s where we’re all going. So is there any real difference between having manual operators versus robotics, and if so, what are they?

Mike Zampano: [00:18:53] I think recently it’s definitely been leaning more towards robotics replacing manual operation. And that’s where those palletizing systems . . .

Winn Hardin: [00:19:02] Or filling gaps, really. I mean, if we could get enough warehouse and assembly workers that would be another issue. But with 20% unfilled positions.

Mike Zampano: [00:19:11] So that’s definitely where the industry is leaning, where robotics can bring an uptick in cycle time and things like that.

Winn Hardin: [00:19:19] Mike, when you’re designing solutions, do you have to do anything special when you’re considering I’m going to be integrating with the robot?

Mike Zampano: [00:19:25] No, that’s kind of what Scott was saying with the tier ones. We work with them collaboratively. So that way we can build the cell to make it work with the robot and use that in the back of our mind: Okay, there’s going to be a robot cell here. Let’s design it accordingly. And that’s where the creativity and the design sometimes does lend itself to just, okay, this is the best solution. And we got to make sure it works.

Winn Hardin: [00:19:50] You keep getting interesting problems for sure. You know, like you were saying earlier, it’s constantly an evolving design element.

Scott Blais: [00:19:55] And it’s not A to B so much anymore. We still do A to B conveyors, but now it’s A to B, B to C, C to D, D to F, all the way up. That said, when you’re presenting to a robot, you have to material handle in a different way than you do if me or you are putting a can on a flat belt. It has to be repeatable, highly repeatable and accurate. We need to make sure that there’s continuity with the presentation of the product to the robot. And by nature of the robotics getting more nuanced, the controls getting more nuanced and comprehensive, the applications or the subassembly processes become more microscopic, for lack of a better term. Which means everyone needs to elevate their game. It needs to be more nuanced and more accurate. 

Winn Hardin: [00:20:44] Plus fixturing. Guys, is there anything we haven’t touched on today that’s important about material handling, where we’re going, where we’re at?

Scott Blais: [00:20:51] Do you have anything to add? I have a thought for sure that I think would wrap this up nicely. With technology taking a step forward and material handling having to keep up, I think it’s paramount for everybody in this industry to keep a couple of things in mind. I’ve said it a couple of times: You can’t replace this, but also the customer service and the value-add proposition has changed dramatically now as well. If we all understand that we operate in an industry where everything needs to work, but it’s not always going to work the way we need it to work. There’s always conflict, there’s always problems, there’s always crisis. Big, small show-stopping issues. If we all operate under that understanding because we don’t live in a utopian world, it’s how you handle the conflict resolution that speaks volumes to who you are as a customer, a supplier, and how much you value these relationships. And I think just speaking on behalf of MK and the 10 years I’ve been here, MK is very much a company that prides itself on the service side of the business, whether it’s a $3,000 flat belt conveyor moving pizza dough or a $3 million line integrating in with robotics to move subassembly automotive. We are there, beginning, middle, and end. And I think it’s critical that every supplier in this industry values that core principle. We need to be responsive, we need to be fast, and we need to take another level of pride in the role we play in this ecosystem. And I think service is key.

Winn Hardin: [00:22:25] I couldn’t agree more. If we’re expecting more and more companies to adopt complex technical solutions that are often highly simplified compared to where they were a number of years ago, we still can’t cut them loose after commissioning, and I think a lot of the data visualizations we’ve been talking about, including AI, leading to predictive or preventive maintenance operations are helping to bring all that together.

Scott Blais: [00:22:49] That’s the one thing that the technological front cannot truly fix. AI can give people information. It can be a huge resource when there is a problem. But still, at the end of the day, when the customer calls, you’ve got to pick the phone call up and you have to do it in a timely manner. There’s only so much the technology can take off of our plates. And so I think the better you serve and the more responsive you are and attentive you are to your customers, to your industry, and to the key players you work with, the better everything rises.

Winn Hardin: [00:23:21] Couldn’t agree more. Scott, Mike, it’s been a pleasure today to talk about MK North America. I hope you guys have a great week. And thanks for taking some time to join us here.

Scott Blais: [00:23:30] Yeah, thank you so much. It was a pleasure.

Winn Hardin: [00:23:31] Yeah a pleasure. We’ll have you back on a future episode to talk more about material handling.

Scott Blais: [00:23:35] That’d be great.

Winn Hardin: [00:23:35] Everybody out there, if you’ve got any questions for Scott and Mike, want to learn more about MK North America, I’m going to assume MKNorthAmerica.com would be a good place to start? Beautiful. Send us the questions and we’ll make sure we get it off to Scott and to Mike. If you like this episode, we hope that you’ve got a chance to see it on your favorite podcast platform. If you’d like to be on a future episode, just ping us down below. And until next time, just remember that manufacturing continues to matter and have a great week.