“AI will be disruptive, but our job, not only as manufacturers but also policymakers, is to make sure that that disruption is good for society, it’s good for our country, it’s good for promoting our values.”

For hundreds of years, emerging technologies — from the automated loom to the PC — have elicited fears or doubts from naysayers. Today, AI is a lightning rod for discussions both within manufacturing and beyond, but the fact is that AI is already enhancing our ability to be more efficient and produce more goods for the entire world, says Jay Timmons, president and CEO of the National Association of Manufacturers (NAM).

In this episode of the Manufacturing Matters podcast, recorded live at the Schneider Electric Innovation Summit 2025, Timmons joins TECH B2B Marketing’s Winn Hardin and Jimmy Carroll to discuss how AI, energy, and policymaking will impact the future of U.S. manufacturing. Timmons talks about how manufacturers and policymakers share a responsibility to best leverage emerging technologies, steer change toward better jobs, and drive the resurgence in American manufacturing. In addition, he discusses the workforce, education, advocating for manufacturers in Washington, and a NAM report on shaping the AI-powered factory of the future.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:00:00] Hi everybody. My name is Jimmy Carroll. I’m the vice president of operations at TECH B2B Marketing. And welcome to this special episode of the Manufacturing Matters podcast, where we’re recording at the Schneider Electric Innovation Summit 2025. I’ve got the pleasure of being joined by my friend and colleague Winn Hardin and Jay Timmons, who’s the president and CEO of the National Association of Manufacturers. Jay, thank you so much for taking the time. We very much appreciate it.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:00:41] It’s great to be here because, as you say in the title, Manufacturing Matters, right?

 

Jimmy Carroll: [00:00:44] Yes, indeed. So let’s jump right in then. What are you most excited about in manufacturing today?

 

Jay Timmons: [00:00:51] You know, that’s kind of a loaded question, Jimmy, to be honest, because there is so much potential in manufacturing. At the National Association of Manufacturers, our number one job is really focusing on the policies that make manufacturing competitive in the United States. Make sure that we are the global powerhouse. And then as a result of that, in my job I get to go on factory floors and see all kinds of new innovations and new ways of doing things, new products that we hadn’t even thought about even a few years ago. One of those, of course, and it’s not really a product — it’s a tool — is artificial intelligence. And how AI is being is being infused into the operations and the decision-making of manufacturers to really enhance our ability to be more productive and produce more for the whole world.

 

Jimmy Carroll: [00:01:47] Well, you jumped right into AI, and I love it because usually I have to bring it up toward the end and say, “It’s inevitable that I’m going to ask about this.” But how are technologies like AI changing the manufacturing floors today for the better?”

 

Jay Timmons: [00:01:58] So I find it interesting. And I think one of the reasons that you probably have to tease that question out a lot of people – there are tons of experts on AI out there – but in reality, look, I’m old enough to remember the advent of the internet, and I can remember all of the prognosticators talking about what that meant. I can actually remember when the PC kind of emerged and all the prognosticators on what that meant. We didn’t necessarily get it all right. I think we were excited about the potential. And there were also those folks who were the doomsday folks.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:02:42] Was it the Luddites from the first automated loom? There was the Industrial Revolution undoing agriculture.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:02:49] That horseless carriage thing, man.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:02:51] It was very disruptive.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:02:53] And it was disruptive. And so AI will be disruptive. I think that’s the one thing that we know. And I would say our job, not only as manufacturers but also policymakers, is to make sure that that disruption is good for society, it’s good for our country, it’s good for promoting our values. And technology is agnostic when it comes to systems of government or values or ethics. We have to make sure that all of those things are part of what we’re asking AI to do and to be a part of. So my whole point on this is, I don’t know that we know yet what all the great news is going to be or all the positive things for AI is going to be. What I can say is what manufacturers are doing right now, and we find about 50% of manufacturers are using AI in their systems. That number will be 60% next year. It’ll jump to 80% by the year 2033. And they’re using it for in many cases kind of basic things. So making productivity more efficient and effective, helping make decisions on logistics and how to get something somewhere quicker and less expensively. But I think, really it sounds pretty trite, but I think the sky’s the limit on where we’re going to go with this, as long as we’re really focused on ensuring the right outcomes.

 

Jimmy Carroll: [00:04:20] Yeah. For sure. And yesterday I saw a session and a number of really intelligent folks up there speaking about AI, and they’re basically saying — one guy actually said AI will change everything about humanity, but we’re sort of at the beginning. And so we’re just dipping our toes in in a lot of ways.

 

Jimmy Carroll: [00:04:52] But so did the internet, right? When you go back to that. And so did that horseless carriage and the loom.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:04:57] And in every case, we came out the other side better. And I’m sorry, but you gotta listen to my high horse a little bit here. We had the exact same discussion the last 20 years when it came to robotics, which I would love to hear about your position on that. But the truth is, I’m not aware of any true peer-reviewed study that has ever said a company that adopted automation didn’t become more profitable, didn’t hire more people as a result. There is shuffling, and there will be shuffling, just as there has been on every major technological event in human history.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:05:35] When that shuffling occurs, it’s when the policymakers have to step in, and they have to say, okay, well, how do we take care of — I don’t want to say “displace,” because that sounds really negative – the segment of the population that will see these changes to their lives. So are we going to train them and upskill them? That’s a job I believe that manufacturers have.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:06:03] That’s a responsibility that we own and we have to execute appropriately. But policymakers will also be looking at, well, how do we ensure that we can best take advantage of this new technology. And that’s going to largely I think depend on education, whether that is primary and secondary. Look, I have two high schoolers to think about that. So I have a freshman and a sophomore, and then I have a fourth-grader. And I just think about especially for that fourth-grader. What will he see in his lifetime? I think back when I was a fourth-grader. Oh my gosh. I mean, I was raised on a farm. I knew cows and fields and that was about it. And we didn’t even have the advent of technology when I was a kid. So now that we have it, how are we going to align ourselves? How are we going to align our education system to take advantage of what I think can be a really positive thing for humanity. But I don’t think, going back to that first conversation or the first part of this conversation, I don’t think we actually know what that means. What are those skills that we’re going to need? So we just have to keep focused on it.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:07:19] Hundred percent. And honestly, as I look around — I’m 57 years old. Age brings a little bit of experience and a little bit of perspective on things. You know, just 10, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, there was a lot of concern when automation was coming in – the robotics and automated machinery. And okay, so how do we handle — who’s responsible for the retraining and reskilling of these folks? But now we see, especially in manufacturing – and I would love to get your comment on this — but the more companies adopt technology, it’s better for their corporate culture. It’s better for their employees. It goes back to the dull, dirty jobs that folks don’t want to do. But it’s really helping, I hope, especially with the NAM’s assistance, when you combine it with education to be able to reach a much larger audience and say, listen, there’s technology, there’s cool stuff going on in manufacturing, right? So you then look at that and the fact that the newest generations are living on devices, and they’re very familiar with that digital interface. So I take all of this in total. And I say, I think the opportunities are actually really, really exciting. I mean, I wonder how much reskilling and retraining there really needs to be as we go into voice queries, AI-assisted manufacturing solutions. Maybe we have exactly what we need.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:08:42] It could well be. I’ve got you beat by the way. I’m 63. And when I first went to college, I wanted to take — I don’t even know what it was called. I think it was coding. It would be the equivalent of coding today I suppose. I don’t know what the name of it was, but it was punch cards. Oh, it was programming. And it was punch cards. You ever seen a punch card?

 

Jimmy Carroll: [00:09:10] Only the library.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:09:11] Yeah, right. In the Smithsonian.

 

[00:09:14] But look, it was the way that we spoke to computers and technology and asked them to do things. That went away just a few years later, and a lot of new technology came out. I had a Kaypro, I believe it was called, PC with the great big huge floppy disks.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:09:34] I learned on TRS-80. So I know we’re totally dating ourselves. Don’t stay with us, audience. We’ll come back.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:09:40] But the audience needs to see that, to your point, we kind of trained ourselves along the way, right? I mean, I think I’m fairly tech savvy. I’m not an expert, but I can certainly . . .

 

Winn Hardin: [00:09:55] Your fourth-grade son would disagree, of course.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:09:56] My fourth-grade son could totally lap me, and my two daughters would definitely laugh and tell me how many things I get wrong on a regular basis.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:10:06] We need feedback.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:10:07] We do. And I get a lot. But I’m not sure whether we do need to change kind of our educational model or not. But I do know that as new technologies, and this has been the case for several decades. As we employ new technologies within our manufacturing operations, we do have that obligation as employers to help future-proof those jobs. And to upskill folks. And look, I believe in kind of self-awareness and manufacturers and business in general. We weren’t really good at that. We just kind of said, “Well, you don’t have the skill. See you later.” But you know what emerged a good 10 to 12 years ago, which I think has been fantastic, is the emergence of the understanding of the importance of culture within an organization. And your team is your family. Your team are the greatest assets that any organization and certainly manufacturing operation has. So I think we’ve gotten smarter about that. And we understand that we have a job. We have a responsibility to make sure that our team has the skills that they need.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:11:19] Corporations growing a conscience. That’s always a good thing.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:11:21] It is.

 

Jimmy Carroll: [00:11:22] We will circle back to AI and policy framework questions. But I want to ask just from a high level. A couple of sessions yesterday they talked about the American resurgence in manufacturing and also reshoring, which kind of goes hand in hand.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:11:37] That was my panel.

 

Jimmy Carroll: [00:11:39] And I loved to hear it. So I’m looking to hear your thoughts on it and see what do you expect from manufacturers in the near term, in 2026 and beyond?

 

Jay Timmons: [00:11:54] Yeah, it’s a great question, Jimmy. And let me just say that, look, I don’t like to put things in partisan terms. But sometimes you kind of have to. I like to look at where manufacturing has come kind of on a continuum. And I came to Washington, DC, because I wanted to be a part of the Reagan Revolution. I was really a child of Reagan. And I think back about the things that he did. And by the way, he was a very strong proponent of immigration into the United States, which if you leapfrog ahead and you realize how important that is to our workforce needs of today, it’s kind of fascinating. But he set the stage for international engagement and really ramping up international trade.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:12:46] He was a fan of globalization.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:12:47] He was a fan of globalization. Exactly right. And he saw the importance of being able to sell our products around the world, because that helped us, and it helped strengthen manufacturing and the manufacturing industry in America. And why is that important? [00:13:00] There is no successful economy in the world that does not have a strong manufacturing base. You know, every dollar that’s invested in manufacturing is another $1.80 of spin-off economic activity. Every job created in manufacturing is another four to five jobs created in other sectors. So manufacturing is the base of all success and the base for improving quality of life for the citizens of whatever country that is. [00:13:26] So he got that. Bush 41 understood global engagement as well. And I think of him and Clinton and Bush 43 and Obama – they all kept focusing on how do we expand trade opportunities around the world? And then Trump 1 came in, and he really understood the importance of competitive economic policy. Bush did a little bit of that. Obama tried to but didn’t succeed. But President Trump and his first administration understood the importance of a competitive tax system, that other countries were trying to clean our clocks with. Ireland was a great example. They smartly lowered their corporate tax rate to attract investment into their country. He also focused on regulatory modernization, and then in the Biden administration, we were very happy with the CHIPS and Science Act. That was a very big focus on something that was very important to our future and AI.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:14:33] Major Achilles heel, based on the U.S. Manufacturing base.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:14:37] At the time, no question. The infrastructure bill that he had and then the policy provisions of the IRA bill. We didn’t like the pay-fors, but policy provisions were pretty sound. Trump 2 comes back in. We were able to get those tax reforms made permanent. And those tax reforms are really going to help us with investment. Regulatory modernization continues. We have a little issue maybe on some of the trade  focus, which we can talk about. And frankly, we have a problem with workforce development. We’ve got 400,000 open jobs in the sector today. That grows to 2 million by the year 2033. And that’s before any success comes from the president’s focus on growing manufacturing.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:15:23] And that’s just in the manufacturing space.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:15:24] That’s just manufacturing. There’s millions. And frankly, one of the problems, since you asked, one of the problems with our broken immigration system, as the focus becomes pushing people out of the country, that is creating vacancies in other sectors of the economy. It’s not in our sector, but we’re competing for that same labor. So now you’ve created a lot of demand for labor.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:15:55] It makes it tighter across the board. You know, in a recent post you were talking about, and we’ve already touched on the concept of AI, but you said that to be successful in AI, we need to be successful in energy. Expand on that.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:16:07] Yeah. And that was one of the other areas, frankly, that this administration has focused on. And Jimmy, your original question was: Are you seeing manufacturing growing in the United States? So I’m going to answer both of those questions at the same time. We’re seeing a lot of optimism in the sector, but I think that optimism is pent up. And one of the things that I’m concerned about is, because we don’t have certainty on the tariff policies. We know the president is a fan of tariffs. You know, he’s made that very clear. So opining on that really doesn’t matter one way or the other. But what I can say is it makes it difficult for manufacturers who want to grow manufacturing capacity to actually build that capacity, because there are some products that we can’t get to actually put in a manufacturing facility. So I’m seeing right now what I would call the great pause. Lots of capital sitting on the sidelines, just waiting to be invested. And a lot of that is waiting to see where are we going to come out on the tariff side. So costs always matter when you’re talking about investment and job creation and wage growth. And then to your point on energy: The lower the cost of energy the better it is for any manufacturer. We use 20% of the nation’s energy output. That is before the advent of AI. And we’ve got to have — and this is what the Schneider Innovation Summit is really focused on – is the need to increase the amount of power that we have available to run these systems, whether they’re in our homes or whether they’re in manufacturing facilities or hotels or wherever they might be. We’re going to have a massive increase in demand for electricity supply over the next few years. We do not have — we may have the ability to produce an all-of-the-above energy strategy, to pull in the components necessary or the products necessary to create electricity – but we don’t have the grid capacity to do what we need to do.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:18:13] Before we bounce – and I know we don’t have a lot of time with you, so I want to make the most that we can. Are there any discussions at the federal level about — was it 579 that accelerated depreciation of capital expenditure? Because I know we’re talking about tariffs. But it wasn’t too long ago that if you were making capital expenditures into a manufacturing plant, you were able to write those down quicker.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:18:37] Bonus depreciation I think is what you’re referring to. There’s interest deductibility. Those are provisions that were made permanent in this bill, which is really great. And that will, again, that is adding to the optimism.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:18:56] That’s part of the Big Beautiful Bill we’re talking about.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:18:59] HR 1. That’s right. So if you invest in the United States, you can you can write off that investment, which is great, instead of depreciating it over time. But again, you’ve got to have the capital to do it. And that’s where the great pause comes in. I have a real-world example of a manufacturer who wants to invest here in the United States. She has a small manufacturing facility, and I think it’s counterintuitive to say it’s small when I tell you what she wants to invest. She wants to invest $100 million on new equipment to build or actually to improve her manufacturing facility to make her more efficient and productive. Grow manufacturing here in the United States. But with tariff policy, that same equipment would cost $140 million. And so she said, “Look, I don’t have the capital. I don’t have a way to invest that much money.” So I never like to take a problem to the White House without having a solution. So the National Association of Manufacturers produced a plan called the Manufacturing Investment Accelerator Program, which says if you have to import something, a critical input to build manufacturing facility here in the United States, you get a speed pass to make that item duty-free. Because the truth is, if you turn on every machine here in the United States, as good as we are, you can only produce about 84% of the critical inputs necessary to build a new manufacturing operation. So think critical minerals, think specialized machines, those types of things. So at least 16% will have to be imported. And that’s going to cost extra money. And that’s not going to work.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:22:55] I mean she’s either making trades, compromises in terms of productivity, capacity, competitiveness. So hopefully that new program can help. That’s been proposed at this point?

 

Jay Timmons: [00:23:07] We’re working with folks within the administration to get some lift on that. And look, the biggest thing that the manufacturers need is certainty on anything. Which is why the tax policy, the regulatory policies are so important. And we need to see the same on trade. Make decisions.

 

Jimmy Carroll: [00:23:22] The NAM recently released a report that is super-relevant to a number of the sessions I’ve seen here in the last couple of days, and it was on shaping the AI-powered factory of the future. And given all the different discussions that you’ve taken part in and I’ve seen throughout these couple of days, what does that look like to you and what are some of the major takeaways from this report?

 

Jay Timmons: [00:23:48] So I just happen to have it here.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:23:50] What are chances?

 

Jay Timmons: [00:23:54] We released this probably about a month ago, I guess, because going back to the very first part of the show, there are a lot of people who like to talk about AI but really don’t understand it. And that includes a whole lot of members of Congress.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:24:09] They’re not known as the most tech savvy.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:24:12] Well, look, I give him credit, right? They understand that this can make us really competitive. But they don’t know how to really harness it. So we worked with Congress. We worked with the administration. In fact, most of our proposals were adopted in the White House’s AI report. But things like ensuring that we don’t have a patchwork of regulations on AI. We need to look at this from a holistic federal perspective, because as you can imagine, Massachusetts might have a different view of it than, say, my home state of Virginia, which I can say is probably the most tech-heavy state in the country outside of perhaps California or maybe Texas. Other things that we need to think about with AI is: How do we use the data? How do we protect privacy? How do we ensure that there’s some sort of a governance structure within an operation of how AI is utilized? So those are a few of the questions I think we’re all asking ourselves right now. And the good news is, I think there are going to be leaders that emerge, meaning policymakers who can help shape that in the right way.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:25:34] Any indications what agency might take the lead on this? The DOC, Department of Commerce, or something else?

 

Jay Timmons: [00:25:39] Well things are a little in flux sometimes at the federal level. So my assumption would be it would be DOC. But right now there is not a focus within the White House itself. But I think each agency clearly has a role in this, right? So each state would have an international perspective.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:26:05] And hopefully they talk together and play nice.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:26:06] And that’s where I think the White House advisers or whatever you want to call it become so important, because they can bring all that together.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:26:14] That’s why they call it the executive branch. Jay, I know we’re running out of time with you today. Is there any one takeaway, leave-behind you want to share with the audience before you bounce?

 

Jay Timmons: [00:26:24] Well, listen, I think there’s probably nothing more important than sharing stories. So those folks who are involved in manufacturing, whether you’re the CEO or you’re the plant floor manager or you’re on the line, whether you’ve been there for a year or you’ve been there for 40 years, you’ve got to tell the story. So the story I told you about the entrepreneur that wants to invest $100 million in machinery – those are the things that are so important for us to hear at the NAM, so that we can be the advocates for the industry. I’m not one who likes to talk about theory. As you can probably tell by my answer on how it’s going with AI. Basically, I don’t think we know. I like to provide actual empirical data and real-life experiences when I’m talking to the White House or I’m talking to members of Congress, the United States Senate, and manufacturers are pretty humble. I don’t think they understand how powerful their stories are, and that’s what we do. We compile those stories. We take them to other powerful people in government to try to make sure we get the right outcomes. And folks can be involved in that by going to our website at nam.org. Obviously, every person listening to this who’s in manufacturing is already a member of the NAM, but if they’re not, for some strange reason, they can learn how to join there as well.

 

Winn Hardin: [00:27:50] Fantastic. And I know there’s a wealth of resources and information. Nam.org?

 

Jay Timmons: [00:27:55] Nam.org.

 

Jimmy Carroll: [00:27:58] And on that note, you can check out that most recent report and other news and updates they have on there and follow along on LinkedIn, which I encourage everyone to do. Jay, with that, again, thank you so much. We really appreciate your time. It’s been a pleasure. And thank you, everybody for tuning in.

 

Jay Timmons: [00:28:14] Thanks for having me.