Discover how decoupling hardware and software is revolutionizing all industries, including manufacturing, and how powerful digital twin technology and AI are playing their parts. Live from the Schneider Electric Innovation Summit, Hany Fouda, Schneider Electric’s senior vice president of process automation, explains the shift toward automated processes, which is driving efficiency and predictability in continuous and hybrid manufacturing. But more than improving machines, the focus on sustainable and flexible manufacturing is critical to attracting the next generation of talent and ensuring profitability.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:00:06] Hi, everybody. My name is Jimmy Carroll. I’m the vice president of operations at Tech B2B Marketing. And welcome to this episode of the “Manufacturing Matters” podcast, where we are live at the Schneider Electric Innovation Summit. I have the pleasure of being joined today by my friend and colleague Winn Hardin, and we’re here with Senior Vice President of Process Automation, Hany Fouda from Schneider Electric. Hany, thank you so much for taking the time.

Hany Fouda: [00:01:18] Oh my pleasure, Jimmy, it’s great to be here with you ——quite exciting.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:01:22] Well, the pleasure is all ours for sure. And we’ve got a lot of questions that we want to ask you, but for our audience and for those who may not know, could you just start us off by letting us know what you do at Schneider and what you’re most excited about?

Hany Fouda: [00:01:33] Sure. First of all, maybe a little bit of background. I am a trained telecom engineer. I discovered the fascinating world of automation, or process automation, very early back in the 90s. So that’s why the gray hair is there for, dominantly, working here. So, I was working for Yokogawa back in the 90s, mainly in the process business, the continuous process business. And then migrating from there to General Electric, mainly in the power generation and power distribution. And then I joined Schneider in 2010. And I’ve been in Schneider mainly in automation. Today I am running the continuous process line of business within Schneider Electric, but also I extend to hybrid processes like water, wastewater, minerals, treatment, processing, and so on, and supported it with our discrete business as well.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:02:36] That’s an awful lot! So if you’re looking at manufacturing and automation today —— so that’s sort of the background that we focus on in our podcast —— what are you most excited about today?

Hany Fouda: [00:02:49] I mean, I think I think the industry is moving progressively towards a future that I think will slightly be different from the last 20, 25 years. Obviously the technology is evolving very fast. We’re not … I don’t want to spend a lot of time talking about generative AI, because we’re going to mention the word AI at some point in time.

Winn Hardin: [00:03:12] We could.

Hany Fouda: [00:03:12] Certainly. I’ll follow your lead, Jimmy, about that. But it’s critical that we operate either continuous or discrete, or manufacturing in general, in a conservative industry. Right? Continuous could be on a very far scale of being conservative, because, obviously, you know, their interest is to maintain the operation to the max. In manufacturing, you tend to have a shorter cycle, but you are constantly also looking for opportunities to drive efficiency. And I’m really excited about the future in the sense that we are seeing a lot of effort to automate the automation, meaning that we are really combining not only converging IT and OT, but combining the value of it together with the traditional OT in order to drive much more efficiency in the plant operation. Today, our customers are demanding flexibility and predictability. Both. Right? Flexibility because they want in manufacturing, for example, to change their operation. Take an automotive company. They want to shift from ICE production to EV production in a few weeks. Not in months or years as we normally do.

Hany Fouda: [00:04:36] So they want this flexibility on the production line itself in order to allow them to do that. And this is very critical. So the simplification, the predictability, and the ability to agilely respond to demand is very important. So automated automation is a big, critical piece of that. You combine it with the OT convergence —— that IT/OT convergence that we talked about —— and you end up with a digitized manufacturing structure. And this is where I see the scaling of ‘digital twin’ becoming a reality, right? I mean, we talked about, for the last 10 years, we talked about from a simulation perspective. Now it’s becoming entrenched in manufacturing and in continuous process. And the final point is sustainable manufacturing, right? And I’m not talking here about ESG or anything related to that. I’m talking about how you optimize your operation to reduce your waste, reduce your input material so, you know, you’re not scrapping a lot and you reduce your energy consumption. That’s my point around sustainability in manufacturing.

Winn Hardin: [00:05:43] So let me follow up with the first point you made, Hany. One of the first words you used when you were talking about process automation as well as discrete manufacturing, you used the word “conservative.”

Hany Fouda: [00:05:52] Yes.

Winn Hardin: [00:05:52] And as we know, manufacturing has not been one to generally lead on the tech side.

Hany Fouda: [00:05:56] Correct.

Winn Hardin: [00:05:56] But the demands that we’re having from the IT and the OT are complex solutions that are requiring new greenfield solutions, or at least a lot of migration of technology. Tell me: how has the appetite been in the manufacturing industry? Are you mainly talking about right now when we’re talking about massive systemic change on greenfield developments, or are we also offering something sweet for the brownfield and existing?

Hany Fouda: [00:06:20] I think it’s a very good question. I think it’s a mix. There is a mixed scale around that. Right? So in continuous process, where customers have a much longer cycle —— 25 to 30 years of operation, with, obviously, every seven years they do a turnaround and so on —— they are, on the scale of conservatism, much higher. Right? And they tend to look into the future technology and try to anticipate what it would look like, both in the brownfield and future greenfield, for themselves. In the manufacturing world in more of the discrete robotics and so on, the cycle is much faster, right? It’s five to seven years and then ——

Winn Hardin: [00:07:04] The infrastructure is more flexible.

Hany Fouda: [00:07:05] Correct. But I think the convergence that we see in the industry is everybody looking for digitization, identification of the OT. It’s no longer the IT and OT convergence, it’s “how can you bring the IT mentality into the OT environment,” with the proper security, cyber security, with the proper safeguards around it. Because at the end of the day, you are —— especially on the continuous side —— you are dealing with assets that are ——

Winn Hardin: [00:07:35] Mission critical.

Hany Fouda: [00:07:37] Mission critical could explode, right? I mean, it has an impact on the community, the neighborhood, the assets, the people, and so on and so forth. In manufacturing, it’s certainly productivity and availability and on time. So, between the two, we are converging with this IT-fication and bringing … It’s not like OT is ceding their scope to IT. But really how to bring this agility in operation, so that you can really customize your product line, your production line, as well as maintain a certain level of cybersecurity and consistency as you move forward. So this word is converging and it’s an exciting time for the industry, because this is a very conservative industry as you well know. And it takes a while in order to make things evolve. But we’re seeing the acceleration driven obviously by the mega trend that we see around us.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:08:38] I just think about the name “Innovation Summit” and so many different sectors, right? For companies in industries to innovate, it involves the advancement of lots of different technologies. Right? So in the space of process automation, what are some of the biggest shifts you’re seeing and maybe what are some of the technologies driving that? And how is that going to impact manufacturing both short term and long term?

Hany Fouda: [00:08:58] Very good question. You know, it’s obviously … We are in our industry. It’s a very conservative industry, both on a discrete side as well as continuous process side. I mean, maybe the timeline is different between the two, right? You’re talking discrete retooling every every few years, every five years or so. In automation it’s 20, 25 years — sorry. In continuous process, it’s a longer cycle. But what I’m seeing is, obviously we’re learning a lot from the IT environment. We are learning how to really start thinking in the future about the need and demand and the agility that we need to put in place. So, you know, a common thread that we’re seeing is, for example, digital stimulation. I mean, this has been in the industry for 20-plus years, but it’s really taking hold now across the spectrum, both in continuous and hybrid, and discrete as well. Because, you know, any investors coming in to say “show me how this will work.” Right? And we have the tools, obviously, in terms of the computing power, the ability to run the proper software in order to simulate the outcome before you start actually putting the major investment in the production line. So you have this agility around simulation, you have agility around budgeting simulation as well to see where you can potentially run into trouble in terms of your assumption with respect to the raw material, with respect to your  security.

Winn Hardin: [00:10:40] And I want to definitely dig deeper in those digital tools, but don’t let me slow your roll.

Hany Fouda: [00:10:45] No, no, I think it’s very important to really understand. How are you going to secure all the pieces together? Because, you know, the approach that you’re taking in a  production site is different than an approach that you probably take in a large oil and gas refinery, for example. Something like that. So, I think it’s, you know … We’re seeing the industry learning a lot from what they have seen in the IT, in the AI, also the ramp up in data centers and trying to adapt that very quickly —— at the pace that may be fast for our normal process automation or control industry —— but learning from the other industries as we continue to retool and readjust. The other element that also I see very evidently is —— and we can talk about AI at some point in time —— is how are you using the AI tool to benefit your prediction about the production level that you are anticipating, and the areas that we need to address beforehand in the design so that it doesn’t turn as a blocker as we move forward.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:12:02] And to me, that’s obviously an incredibly informative and insightful answer. But, one of the things that that says is, you know, it speaks to the importance of partnerships, especially at an event like this. And I imagine you work closely with companies like Nvidia and others when it comes to handling large amounts of data and AI and compute?

Winn Hardin: [00:12:20] Especially in the visualization space you’re talking about. Right?

Hany Fouda: [00:12:24] Absolutely. And I think, you know, even working closely with our competitors as well, it’s very important to drive the industry forward. So, we can talk about, for example, some of the effort that we put forward with universal automation, which is trying to drive the industry toward a much more software-centric approach in order really to manage the underlying change in the hardware that we see on a regular basis. Right? I mean, the laptop that you used to use, for example, 20 years ago, obviously, you look at it today and you know, it’s hardly usable, right? I mean, it was suitable for the environment that was 20 years ago. Now you can see our data centers are constantly upgrading the infrastructure in order to serve much better the demands from either consumers or the manufacturers as well. So I think this coupling will continue to evolve, and that will require us to be staying in the forefront in order to see how can we continue to invest in the software layer while the hardware is continued to be upgraded —— upgraded and extended when it is required —— so that you kind of have the best of both worlds. You’re not changing a lot of the software, but you are expanding the hardware as needed as more opportunity will come forward.

Winn Hardin: [00:13:57] You know, it’s interesting, you just mentioned designing platforms to standards, right?

Hany Fouda: [00:14:01] Right.

Winn Hardin: [00:14:02] And you mentioned earlier that a lot of the digital simulation tools have been around for 10 or 20 years, but these are basically CAD, moving CAD environments. We’re testing individual small work cells, small environments. Now you’re suggesting that we need to use digital twin and digital simulation of full lines, full plan operations. Can you talk to us a little bit about —— and to me, I see a criticality of the compatibility question, which is always the software layer. But, can you go a little bit more into the tools and the automation solutions that Schneider is helping to folks? Because this is a sea change, right? You know, going from designing, using software tools to design individual work cells or pieces of equipment or whatever, to an entire plant, right, where you can actually then use AI for optimization of process inputs, outputs, you know, find the sweet spot power consumption, all types of different operational KPIs. Right? So tell us a little bit more if you could about that platform, because I’m thinking for both process and discrete manufacturing this is a, “Goodness, where do I start?” scenario.

Hany Fouda: [00:15:02] Absolutely. And I think it’s a very good question by the way. I mean, the basic premise here is how can we evolve as fast as we can while maintaining the cost competitiveness and the investment that we have put in place? So, in the thinking that we have [here[ in Schneider Electric, where, first of all, we are trying to decouple the hardware from the software, right? I mean, I think this has been done for 20 years in the IT industry, you know, so we’re not doing something new. But it’s critical for us to start actually evolving the software in a way that is adding value to the operation, to the engineers, to the C-level that certainly own the asset. All while the hardware more and more becomes closer to commoditization basically. Right?

Winn Hardin: [00:16:00] So what’s funny to me on that is that for decades, manufacturers resisted every opportunity to put it in the OT environment. Right? Cloud was never an acceptable application. We don’t share operational data outside. There’s a risk and liability with that. But I mean literally for the last five or seven years, that’s completely changed. So that really enables that separation between hardware and software layers.

Hany Fouda: [00:16:21] You’re absolutely right. And I think that will continue to evolve because, you know, our customers are also realizing that they cannot do it all on their own. They need a collective wisdom of the crowd, right?

Winn Hardin: [00:16:33] The scalability of all the other …

Hany Fouda: [00:16:35] Absolutely. And it’s a fleet management, right? I mean, within your company, you can manage your installation, your factories, your investment as a fleet and compare between them. Why? You look for trends. You look for anomalies and see how you can correct the course in order to have much more commonality in terms of the operation and avoid bottlenecks as you progress further. And then you can compare with your competitors as well. Maybe anonymous data, which will be available in the future as you use a platform like Aviva Connect, for example, where you can start actually benchmarking yourself relative to your peers without really identifying those who are within the level of security, of cyber-security, that is guaranteed in order to really understand how you compare with the industry norms. We do that in a statistical way. But I think we need to take the further step in order to advance manufacturing and also build cadres of people, of competencies, that are able to identify the anomalies. Because right now I think you can look at a factory, you can optimize, you can tweak and so on. But this will become, in the age of AI —— as you guys know … When you run models, you really need to to find the 0.01% improvement in order to get you where you need.

Winn Hardin: [00:18:12] To be running a couple of trillion iterations on a …

Hany Fouda: [00:18:15] Exactly. Exactly. But which is the right model and which is the right data set will bring you to that conclusion? I think this is where the industry is moving toward. We have been always told that we are a conservative industry and we are. But we are in a position today —— especially with the separation between the hardware and software  that we have in universal automation —— it’s an opportunity, actually, to start catching up with other industries in that space and run models that would benefit the whole industrial sector, both in discrete as well as in the process side.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:18:57] And you have touched on this at a pretty good level so far, but I want to ask about how some of the … And “interoperable” is one word. But another is “collaborative,” right? Because if you’ve got a company that is building or creating parts, similar parts across the world, and factories all around the globe —— “data set” is another word that you mentioned toward the end of your answer there. You have to have the correct data set, you have to be able to share data amongst these different factories around the world. What are some of the ways that  these open, interoperable systems are driving innovation and just improving manufacturing operations?

Hany Fouda: [00:19:34] A very good question. I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to address that, because I think everybody assumes “open and operable” means that it’s free. I mean, there’s a connotation that it is a standard, and then it’s available for all. But I think a view from the likes of Android and others, it’s not necessarily totally free. It is the wisdom of the crowd coming together in order to build something that is foundational. And then, you know, we still have to compete on the add-ons or the top-ends that would would differentiate you. Right? And I think this is where Schneider, and maybe some of our peers, are taking the approach that we have to have a base for the industry to build on —— you know, from the perspective of the “glue” as a starting point, and then you can differentiate with the other values you bring in. So I, in a nutshell, think the industry is moving consistently toward openness —— and that’s not new in our manufacturing world —— but also with a twist, an openness with a twist. So that you can start seeing some of the innovation being recognized and added on the top of this openness to build up a scalability in terms of, for example, running operations almost unmanned at some point in time. Adding value in terms of detecting anomalies in the operation and mitigating that. Obviously with the power of generative AI, you can start actually taking note, because the amount of data that can be consumed and ingested by these models would allow us to identify the 0.0001% of improvement that we can bring in —— and build up a momentum for the industry to also learn from each other, because, you know, sometimes we look at continuous process as a separate from, uh, discrete automation, but there is a lot of flow in terms of ideas and concepts that actually can go back and forth.

Hany Fouda: [00:21:58] I mean, the time scale could be different, in terms of investment in continuous process relative to discrete. But that doesn’t mean that we cannot learn from each other as well, because at the end of the day, you know, you’re serving an economy and a consumer or government, in an approach that would be consistent across. And I’ve seen —— for instance, taking EV battery manufacturing as an example —— you actually combine all three.

Hany Fouda: [00:22:27] You have the hybrid, you have discrete, and you have continuous process, because there is a lot of cooking in EV battery [manufacturing]. So especially in the new energy landscape, it’s becoming a combination of all three disciplines. You have water processing, that tends to be hybrid. You have also discrete manufacturing as part of the same plant, and also a level of lithium cooking and so on in order to build up the raw material. The industry sometimes segregates itself based on its time cycle, but I see that —— especially with energy and the new energy landscape —— it’s becoming all consolidated together. And it’s interesting to watch, because you start combining the problems from all pieces: the long term, the mid term, and the short term all combined in one factory in one operation.

Winn Hardin: [00:23:26] There’s an awful lot there to unpack. I almost don’t even know where to start. But, you know, we’re talking about automation in general and we’re talking about using AI either as generative or just for process optimization. And I’m sitting here thinking about everything we’re talking about —— how you bring together different, whether it’s continuous, discrete, hybrid operations —— we’re talking about digital simulation and optimization of process before the first foundation is poured. Schneider —— and obviously you have a lot of partners that are offering these digital transformations, you work with a lot of different companies —— are there certain suggestions that you would tell us that Schneider uses that Schneider’s partners use, or even direct customers that come to you that would say, “these are some of the first things you need to consider” when you’re approaching a new greenfield production thing. And not just from equipment or power consumption and modeling and operational, but also from workforce development. Earlier, you mentioned one of the critical components was to develop a cadre of people who had the right skill sets. So what is Schneider doing to help their customers and partners to work with these customers when there’s so much change going on here?

Hany Fouda: [00:24:32] Very good question and I appreciate it. Certainly it’s facing the whole industry, right? And I think, first of all, I think one of the biggest challenges is to attract newcomers to our industry. We are sometimes perceived —— even though we are powering the manufacturing of the world —— that the industry is not doing enough in order to attract the newer generation.

Winn Hardin: [00:24:57] Still stuck on that dirty, dangerous, dull.

Hany Fouda: [00:24:58] Correct. Yeah, the chemical engineers of the future, the manufacturing engineers of the future. I see that in other economies, like China, it’s much, much easier to attract that cadre, but not necessarily in our Western society. And I think it’s a problem because the workforce of the future are digitally native, there is no doubt about that. Because they were born with TikTok, with the social media and so on. So they know how to navigate that, but they need to be guided by the industry where they can certainly add value to the spaces that they are operating in or what they care about.

Winn Hardin: [00:25:46] To make that connection, between the digital lifestyles that we are already participating in, which is actually … We’re training the workforce. I mean, we talk about cultural differences and changes over time, device consumption, and everything of our young people. And at the same time we say, “well, they don’t want to go into manufacturing.” And yet companies that adopt technology consistently have better cultures, better retention, easier to keep and retain.

Hany Fouda: [00:26:08] And it’s fun!

Winn Hardin: [00:26:09] Exactly.

Hany Fouda: [00:26:11] You are producing for the world to consume, right? I mean, if you are a chemical engineer or a production engineer, there is someone across the value chain that is consuming what you are producing. And I think we need to do a better job making our future generation coming in now to be proud of participating in that. And also demonstrate to them that the business is sustainable. It can be sustainable. And I think it’s very important to do that.

Winn Hardin: [00:26:39] Must do it.

Hany Fouda: [00:26:39] Exactly, exactly. I fully agree with you! Otherwise we will not be on this planet for long, right? I mean, so it is important from a manufacturing point of view, when you set up a production line for an automotive, for example, for an EV car, that you can be able to switch with ICE. This is also innovation because the same production line is producing two cars, depending on the demand in the market. This flexibility is something that the automotive manufacturers are looking for. Rather than rebuilding new plants, they retool their existing infrastructure. It’s important and essential to think about, obviously, the environment. About how we are producing these vehicles. For example, you know, when we are building an LNG, how can we make it net zero as much as we can? It’s still an LNG because we need that form of power, form of energy, basically 100%. But, what can we do in order to mitigate any impact on the environment and make it as net zero as possible? And I think this thinking is coming in the industry right now, propelled by the technology that’s available. I mean, coming back to your question, you know, I think it’s a cause-and-effect that we are driving all together, where we are showing that we can, with software, with software defined automation, we can actually have flexibility in building and designing your system and building your manufacturing capability in simulation mode, before you start actually really investing in hardcore physical assets, right? And if you can simulate that and you can align it with the objective, the core objective of the entity or the government that you are serving or the …

Winn Hardin: [00:28:41] Industry sustainability.

Hany Fouda: [00:28:42] Exactly. And how you build pieces for the future as well, in order to keep squeezing out more efficiency, more sustainability as you progress forward, it becomes a very interesting value proposition, not only for the manufacturer or the owner, but also for the community where they are operating. At the end of the day, they are sitting in a community somewhere. They’re probably going to hire people from that community as young engineers, young technicians, and so on, and build up from there, I think this is, you know, thanks to you, it’s it’s something that we need to propagate in the industry.

Winn Hardin: [00:29:17] So we do something good …

Hany Fouda: [00:29:20] Yes. Yes! You have to be proud because I think it’s really building the idea that it’s a full cycle, right? I mean, we are a user-operator and engineers and consumers at the end. I mean, we have to be proud of what we are consuming, even if you are operating in LNG or a chemical plant, there is a value in that. And the fact of the matter is, this value could be extremely important for not only the community, but also for the environment around you. So I see progress in manufacturing. I see people questioning and raising questions. I see the standardization and the ability to move to actually decouple the hardware and software and really look into it. Look at the production in a different way. I mean, how can we scale it more efficiently and more sustainably from the get go? And even if you are in a brownfield and you’re … We have a great example at Schneider Electric where we looked into our manufacturing. We have 200 manufacturing sites. Many of them are discrete. And we wanted to really have lighthouse operation in many of these manufacturing sites, and we relooked and redesigned how the site operates in a meaningful way to be sustainable. I mean, we want to stay on the forefront in terms of sustainability —— and not only because of the environment and the ESG impact, but because we believe in it, and because it’s cost effective as well. I mean, you consume less raw material. You consume less energy. The people are happier. They really understand they are helping the environment. At the same time, they are producing something for the economy. And I think it’s win-win for policy.

Winn Hardin: [00:31:13]  [00:31:13]Considering how important social values are to the emerging workforce, the newest workforce. I mean, it’s important for them to feel like they’re making the world a better place, right? Which was so important for us, you know, in earlier generations, for a long time —— although I think we approached it a little bit differently. It’s So much easier to be able to use digital tools right now to build that new plant super efficient while also making things that people want or need. And this great fulfillment in building a really sweet EV car or something like that, being that person on that line and then driving it home that Saturday, or your friends are driving it —— that’s a great feeling, it gives you a warm feeling inside.

Hany Fouda: [00:31:50] Absolutely.

Winn Hardin: [00:31:51] On something meaningful. But I think this new generation is also critical about, well, “how do we do this and still be culturally or socially aware?” “How do we take care of our communities, our environments, our homes, our energy consumption?” So it’s funny how many different parts we’re talking about today that you wouldn’t intuitively think, “wow, this is the future.” But it’s so much more beyond nuts and bolts, right? Or even power consumption. It’s just talking about a whole new way to envision manufacturing and come to hopefully take us to a better place, you know, as a world, a community.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:32:29] And power consumption is a good thing. And I promise you that we could sit here all day and ask you questions, but I do want to be respectful of your time. But I want to sneak in a question about AI.

Hany Fouda: [00:32:42] No worries, I’m enjoying the discussion.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:32:44] I do want to ask —— and then sort of a fun AI question after —— about power consumption and sustainability. And I’d just love to hear from, you know, Schneider and you, here, right now. But, AI is interesting in so many different ways, but one concern that a lot of people have is it’s very compute intensive.

Hany Fouda: [00:33:02] Yes.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:33:03] And, you know, these data centers that are being built and the technology is improving and it’s going to get better. But even things like using ChatGPT to generate a funny image for your kid or whatever it might be ——

Hany Fouda: [00:33:14] — consume a lot of energy.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:33:15] It requires energy, yeah. But at the same time, AI is helping companies optimize operations for things like predictive analytics and machine vision and robotics. And I’m sure Schneider is leveraging AI in so many different ways. So in some ways, yes, there is some level of … It’s almost like you have to spend money to make money a little bit with AI. What are some ways that Schneider is approaching AI, and what are some ways you see it adding the most value?

Hany Fouda: [00:33:39] Absolutely. It’s a great question. I think it’s important to realize that we supply, obviously, the data center space with all the electrification and the cooling equipment. And, we are constantly looking into ways to reduce the impact on the environment, both from the cooling perspective as well as from the electrification side, because these centers are running 24/7. They require a lot of —— and we are partnering with Nvidia on that ——  processors in the operation. So there is an amount of heat dissipated as a result that we need to take care of. And we are constantly looking into ways to embed our latest technology in order to reduce the impact on the environment. This is from a data center perspective. But also, if you start looking into how we are using the value  of AI in our operation —— in terms of looking for ways to help our customers improve and really squeeze the 0.0001%, which could be potentially a value for them when you aggregate that on a fleet of operations. This is worth actually looking into. I mean, how can we reduce the energy consumption while certainly driving more efficiency in their operation and ability? For example, if it is a continuous process, how can they tap into an algorithm, from an air perspective, depending on their production plan, to reduce or shut down part of the operation in order to reduce energy consumption, then ramp up when they need to?

Hany Fouda: [00:35:23] On all this, the AI is really helping because the algorithm can run in the background, constantly looking for opportunities to squeeze this 0.0000001% of efficiency and extract that over scale. And I think … AI, you know, I see it certainly as transformative, but it’s the way we’re going to use it and deploy it on the ground, right? I mean, obviously there is a very strong race existing today in building data centers. We see that across all our partners, you know, with Microsoft, Google … All the hyper-scalers are in a real investment race. But from our perspective, [the question] is, “how can we minimize the impact on the environment and how can we leverage these data centers in order to drive decisions to support our customers, together with the hyper-scale?”

Winn Hardin: [00:36:30] Operations where you drive efficiency.

Hany Fouda: [00:36:31] Correct, correct. So it’s not far away where the data is in, in one continent and …

Winn Hardin: [00:36:39] You use it in another?

Hany Fouda: [00:36:40] Exactly. So, you know, in totality, I think we … You know, a lot of people are scared, obviously. Where are we going in the future? But in reality, it’s really up to us. I mean, how are we going to drive the demand of the usage of this fabulous technology that is changing the environment, changing the world? And how can we also drive —— you know, as you as you pointed out —— this sustainable approach as we progress to scale the technology, right? So that we are constantly looking for ways to squeeze either the energy out of the data centers, because they’re obviously generating a lot of heat. And how can you recycle it back, how can you cool it in a much more effective way and reduce the impact on the environment? At the end of the day, it is not about just sustainability for the sake of sustainability. It really makes common sense, you know, because we live on this planet.

Winn Hardin: [00:37:40] I mean, we talk about sustainability and how we only have one home. But I mean, if you’re looking from the enterprise —— I mean, that’s profitability, right? And profitable companies are able to hire more, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. People who adopt automation inevitably have higher head counts than companies who do not.

Hany Fouda: [00:37:55] Absolutely.

Winn Hardin: [00:37:55] You know, we were just sitting at another media briefing earlier today about ecostructure. And forgive me if I’m getting the platform wrong, but how you guys are building AI into the DERMS management, BMS management. There was a lot of discussion about hyper-scaling and data centers, but also applicable in any other continuous operation —— life sciences, health, campus —— commercial facilities where, you know, building management systems are super critical. And leveraging AI not just inside the walls, but also to the microgrid external and the utility connections. And especially when you think about hyper-scalers and their need to usually blend power from multiple utilities to be able to handle their capacity.

Hany Fouda: [00:38:33] Yeah.

Winn Hardin: [00:38:34] So I mean, it’s not just running conductors anymore, putting it into an overproduction device and, yay, we’re lit. Right? It’s a much more complex environment if we want to save time, achieve efficiencies, and make our enterprises stronger —— which is another form of sustainability.

Hany Fouda: [00:38:51] I mean, absolutely, you said it very well. It is a combination of everything, right? I mean, there is no single bullet that will solve all the problems. You have to really approach it from …

Winn Hardin: [00:39:02] Wish there were, it’d be easier.

Hany Fouda: [00:39:04] Absolutely!

Winn Hardin: [00:39:06] We’d get more vacations, you know.

Hany Fouda: [00:39:08] That would be extremely helpful as well! But I think it’s a combination of the whole industry coming together with the hyper-scaler and learning from each other. And I think Schneider is at the forefront of that in terms of sharing with, certainly with our customers, as well as with our competitors in order to drive the industry forward. And this push towards software-defined automation is a critical piece of really decoupling ourselves from the hardware, which sometimes can be daunting to replace every once in a while, in order to keep up with the pace of the progress of the industry —— especially from an IT perspective. And really blend in the right hardware for the right application while maintaining your investment in the software.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:39:53] Yeah, I was smiling earlier because my fun question was going to be: The people that are afraid of AI, how do you tell them to not be afraid? But you really sort of answered that in your other response. And, with that … Is there anything else we haven’t talked about? And if you have anything else to put out there for the folks who may be afraid of AI, what would you tell them?

Hany Fouda: [00:40:12] I’m very proud of the manufacturing work that we are in. We are moving. It’s a conservative industry. AI is accelerating our evolution in the industry as well. And really driving both the customers who have their own factory and the vendors in order to innovate at a scale that probably is moving much faster than we anticipated in the first place. And it’s not to me an “arms race.” It is a necessity in order to keep our planet sustained, in order to really also drive products to the market at a reasonable level, a reasonable cost, so you’re not going to get the inflationary pricing as a result. Because, if you continue to optimize your operation to squeeze some of the inefficiency out of it, you can maintain a reasonable price for the service that you’re delivering or the products you’re delivering. So I think it really helps our society.

Winn Hardin: [00:41:22] To increase the global standard of living is completely based on what you just laid out.

Hany Fouda: [00:41:27] Exactly. It’s fundamental. The technology is helping on that.

Winn Hardin: [00:41:30] We have no option but to continue that, right?

Hany Fouda: [00:41:33] I mean, you maintain it at 2 or 3%, you know, not 10, 15, 20% of inflammatory pricing. You want to maintain it at that sweet spot. And I think this is the direction that we’re seeing with the advance of technology. You need more technology in the space. The workforce is evolving as well. I mean, definitely, we’re seeing that people are interested and we’ve seen that in the mining industry 15, 20 years ago when they started using basically automated vehicles, right in the deep end of the mine. But the operators didn’t disappear. They moved into a control room. Their situation improved. Rather than sitting in a vehicle all day, eight hours, they were now in a control room with a nice environment, but were still running it remotely. And they’re still getting the productivity, extracting productivity in the same way, but with a different method. So, I think this is what we’re going to see in manufacturing, both for continuous process as well as for discrete automation as well. And we have to be proud. We have to continue to be proud. Right? I mean otherwise we have to hand it over to the future generation in order to take it to the next level.

Winn Hardin: [00:42:54] Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:42:56] Well, thank you so much for taking the time today. We really appreciate it. If anybody wants to follow Schneider’s latest advancements and innovations when it comes to, ultimately, saving our planet, follow them on LinkedIn or SE.com or —— is there anywhere else, a particular blog or anything you would recommend, or would that about cover it?

Hany Fouda: [00:43:15] We publish a blog on SE.com, as you said, so that would be the right place as well.

Winn Hardin: [00:43:20] Fantastic.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:43:20] Well, thank you again. I really appreciate it. If anybody has any questions for Hany, we’d be happy to pass them along. You can reach out to us at Manufacturing-Matters.com. And thank you so much for listening. We appreciate it.

Hany Fouda: [00:43:30] Thank you guys. It was fun.

Winn Hardin: [00:43:31] It was a pleasure. Thanks.

Hany Fouda: [00:43:32] My pleasure. Thanks.