How do image sensor companies approach new product development? Oftentimes it involves developing custom products for customers and then using the resulting IP as new products. Sometimes, however, these products that may target specific applications such as machine vision end up adding value far beyond the factory floor, from surgical guidance to indoor pet monitoring. If a camera can produce a crisp image for a customer, ultimately its intended use is of no consequence.

In this episode of Manufacturing Matters, James McCann, Director of the Low Noise Business Team at Teledyne Imaging joins TECH B2B Marketing’s Jimmy Carroll and John Lewis to discuss the company’s latest technological innovations and the applications in which they add value.

In addition, McCann discusses its approach to working with camera customers, single photon imaging, and more.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:00:06] Hi, Everybody. My name is Jimmy Carroll. I’m the vice president of operations at Tech B2B Marketing, and I’m here at the SPIE Photonics West 2024 event. I have the pleasure of being joined by James McCann of Teledyne Imaging and my colleague John Lewis. James, thank you so much for taking the time. I know it’s been a busy show for you, and your time is valuable, so I appreciate it.

James McCann: [00:00:26] Thanks.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:00:27] So, for those who don’t know, and you work specifically within the e2v group, could you tell us a little bit about Teledyne e2v, part of the Teledyne Imaging Group?

James McCann: [00:00:37] Sure. So, the reason we say Teledyne Imaging is because we want to be able to offer almost a one-stop shop. The full solution, everything from the pixel through to your delivery on a PC. So, Teledyne e2v, specifically with respect to imaging, we’re broken up into a number of different areas. But if we talk about professional imaging because that’s the most relevant for this show, then we are looking at five different core markets, and those are scientific, and defense, 3D as a specialist technology, medical scanning in high volume — so barcode reading and the like — and then traditional machine vision.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:01:15] One of the things that’s been obvious throughout the past couple of years in looking at markets like machine vision and automation and beyond, of course, but imaging in general, let’s say, is the idea that, you know, sensor technology continues to push cameras forward, which continues to push the capabilities of imaging and machine vision systems forward. So, all these technologies are kind of advancing in lockstep to, to add new capabilities and solve new problems and make things faster and more efficient. How do you guys go about approaching that from a product development standpoint? Do you respond to customer demand? Do you try to release products? And I know you have a new product, which I want to ask about because it’s a unique one, but do you, do you release certain products to get out ahead of demand? Is it a combination of both?

James McCann: [00:02:02] Sure. So, it’s quite nice for us because we do standard product. So, we explore the market, learn from our customers, complete voice of customer, and then look to release a product that is useful to many people. And then of course, we also do quite a lot of custom technology and custom offers, particularly at a camera level, to be able to differentiate versus their competition because they can buy something unique, something just for them that they can have exclusivity on. And then that means that they’re able to take to the market what they want to take to the market. And instead of just buying the generic sensor that everybody else buys, they’ve got something different. So, if you’re applying, if you’re trying to approach to a niche market, then that’s one way of achieving that.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:02:42] Okay. So that’s interesting, right? So, when it comes to the product that I mentioned, it’s a low-light imaging sensor. Is that right? Is that the Onyx?

James McCann: [00:02:50] Yes. Onyx Max.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:02:52] So, what led to that? What led to the development of that? And what target applications do you have in mind?

James McCann: [00:02:56] Okay, so we initially designed the sensor for commercial and industrial use, but it’s quite clear that what we’ve succeeded with here is capable of serving many markets. The niche behind the product is that it has an extended near IR performance, but it doesn’t just have a good quantum efficiency in the near IR. It also has good MTF. So, you don’t just have a product that has good quantum efficiency, which looks nice from a marketing standpoint, but you’re also going to get a clear, clear, crisp image out at the end of it. Those markets are really broad — anybody that needs near infrared response essentially. So, that can be, it can be a night vision system, that can be a security camera, that can be a medical application. If you’re looking at, for instance, trying to be able to position markers for a surgery or something like that. So, really broad but near IR focused on that sensor.

John Lewis: [00:03:45] Is that a standard silicon sensor?

James McCann: [00:03:47] It is. It is a standard silicon. But we’re using a thicker epitaxy and then applying a technology called gyro, which comes from CCDs originally. And we’ve transitioned that into CMOS.

John Lewis: [00:03:58] And when you say extended NIR, what wavelengths are you talking about?

James McCann: [00:04:02] So, we will hit the band gap. So, 1100 nanometers. And at 850 and 940 we have really good responses. So, at 850 it’s about 60% quantum efficiency. And a little bit more in terms of MTF. So, really high performance in NIR.

John Lewis: [00:04:18] Very good.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:04:18] In terms of the image sensor market in general, I’m curious from your perspective, right, are there a lot of camera companies out there that are basing cameras around the same sensors, and certainly that’s not a bad thing. That’s, that’s going to happen. But when customers come to you, what’s something that you can tell them about? I guess what I’m trying to get at is, from sensor to sensor, camera to camera, how do you differentiate? Why would somebody come to to e2v as opposed to the others?

James McCann: [00:04:52] We’ve accumulated a huge profile of background IP over the years, working with many customers on customs. They have exclusivity within their market and then we reutilize that IP to create new products as we go on. That’s how we build our portfolio. If we look at the way that differentiation has been done over the last few years, that’s always been heavily focused on pixel design. So, we’ve been able to either access a particular foundry or work with a foundry to develop a pixel. Many thanks to our foundry partners for that. I won’t name them. And then now we’re starting to look more at what is the next generation demand of technology now to really start to push the boundaries of sensors that are available. There’s a nice talk by my boss, actually, Rafael Romay. He talked about 3D stacking. So, you’re then able to include image processing technology in the logic wafer so that you’re able to maybe simplify the camera or simplify the first stage FPGA so that you can do dark signal corrections just as an idea. It’s something that you can complete on chip. So, then when you are designing that sensor, you design that into the sensor. Therefore, you pay for it once. You don’t pay for it in every FPGA that you put into your camera. So, what you then include in that logic wafer in the processing on chip can then be used as differentiation within the camera.

John Lewis: [00:06:13] Yeah. I was just going to say aside from the Onyx Max low-light imaging sensor, are there other new imaging sensor products that you’re excited about?

James McCann: [00:06:25] Oh, yes. We’ve got quite a few customs that are on the way. I’ll swerve those, if you don’t mind, but we have the second generation of the Emerald Sensor. Emerald was designed as a family of chips with different resolutions and speed capabilities to be able to cover a broad range of the machine vision market. And then there are also some new 3D sensors that are coming out, and it’s yeah, quite, quite exciting. We’ve been working hard for a couple of years on some of these devices and sort of pushing the boundary of what we’ve achieved on the previous generation. And the same is present in the Onyx Max device. We took a previous product, Onyx 1.3, and we’ve enhanced that in terms of its noise performance and its near infrared response.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:07:07] James, I know that you work specifically in certain verticals, but I am curious about 3D. You mentioned 3D and its time of flight sensor, right?

James McCann: [00:07:16] So, we cover time of flight and laser triangulation.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:07:19] You do, okay. What are some of the, I mean, I know what a lot of the most common applications are for these types of sensors, but have you seen them deployed in any unique or interesting ways?

James McCann: [00:07:32] That is a good question. Probably not one that I’m able to answer proficiently, unfortunately. What we tried to do is focus specifically in verticals and then we learn everything there is to, well, not everything, but we learn as much as we can about a specific market.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:07:46] Totally makes sense. I’ll bring it back to the verticals you served then. What are some of the interesting applications that you’ve seen that you’re, of course, you are allowed to talk about in the last couple of years?

James McCann: [00:07:56] We have seen . . . I’ll focus on the applications from Onyx Max because that’s most recent. That’s been a huge element of discussion over this show so far. Some interesting applications. I mentioned one in medical where it’s going to be used in in surgeries to be able to identify markers of either tooling or tissue. That’s utilized in the near infrared. And we’re also seeing some applications where people are taking indoor monitoring of pets or people, and then they want to expand upon that. So, where you have somebody that’s elderly at home, you might want to be able to keep an eye on them. But there are some businesses looking to do automation of that so that there’s just a small camera present in the room, a bit like an Alexa, for example. And if something was to occur or it would be able to monitor or track a fall or some movement or something like that. A Little bit different.

John Lewis: [00:08:51] Any predictions or expectations for the future in photonics and automation?

James McCann: [00:08:59] I think we’re definitely going to see more 3D stacking and pushing towards the more challenging of the foundry nodes. Of course, the difficulty there is you want to achieve specific volumes. And if you’re talking about small sensors, and you’re not talking about an application that has large volume, there is certainly a challenge there. But a lot of the foundry partners are really welcoming of image sensor technology and working with us to develop and progress those.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:09:26] James, what else haven’t we asked about? I imagine that your booth has been busy and, well, I know it has, I walked by it. But when you walk the show floor, what excites you beyond, you know, beyond the purview of your company just in general? Different technological advancements that catch your eye, things like that.

James McCann: [00:09:44] I think for me, the one thing I always like about this show is how accessible it is for smaller businesses, actually. I work for a huge, huge company that has many arms of its imaging technologies but being able to see and work with some of these smaller businesses and either support them by helping them develop from startup through to something that’s launched to market, or just being able to utilize them as a supplier. That’s a really nice feel for the show. And I’ve been coming here for many years now, so I have a lot of friends, ex-colleagues, colleagues, and people that I know quite well. So, it’s it’s not just an opportunity to catch up and make sure that you get an eye on the technology but also to engage with some, some fellow people in the industry.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:10:28] Yeah, well, and in some cases they’re probably partners, right? It seems like now more than ever, these companies, companies like yours and a lot of the ones down in the or up on the show floor, I suppose, are working together to solve new problems and create new capabilities and just push technologies forward. Has that been your experience?

James McCann: [00:10:45] Yeah, thanks for mentioning the partner comment. Yes, we try to solve problems rather than create them. I guess that’s probably a unique selling point. The partnerships are something that we really try to to work on, particularly with our camera customers. They are usually market leaders, and we want to enable them to succeed because then a byproduct is you succeed together. So, yeah, partnerships are something that we really value. It takes a lot of energy and a lot of effort, but it is a differentiation versus some of our competition.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:11:18] Anything else, John or James, that you feel like it’s important to mention or add?

John Lewis: [00:11:23] I was just up there a few minutes ago, and I was talking to some guys about single photon imaging. I don’t know if you have any thoughts on that.

James McCann: [00:11:32] It’s been threatening to be troublesome for quite a long time. When I first started working in photonics, I was working on CCDs, and everybody said to me, CCDs are dead. It’s the end of that product. They are dinosaurs. And actually CCDs still sell reasonably well, considering I’ve been in the industry for quite a long time now and they still haven’t disappeared, and now we’re starting to see CMOS. And then ACMOS came along and we’ve seen some some other variations of that technology. I think there’s always going to be something that comes along and that’s interesting. And being able to photon count is interesting for quite a lot of applications. It just needs to get that market uptake in order to really succeed. So, we’ll see what that brings in. I guess in the next three to five years.

John Lewis: [00:12:16] That’s all I’ve got.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:12:17] Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, if people want to learn more, is it Teledynee2v.com?

James McCann: [00:12:24] Yes. You can swing by the booth, or you can pop onto pretty much any media anywhere and type in Teledyne. We are everywhere you look, and you don’t have to look too far to be able to find it. Yeah.

Jimmy Carroll: [00:12:35] Perfect. Well, if anyone has any questions for James, we would be happy to pass them along. You can reach out to us at Manufacturing-Matters.com. And thanks very much.